In 2009, a new round of comprehensive and nationwide healthcare reform was launched by the Chinese government with the aim to solve the problems summarized as getting medical is difficult and expensive (kan bing nan, kan bing gui) [42].
With this reform, a range of market-oriented policies was introduced into the healthcare industry to enhance the availability of healthcare to meet the people’s diversified needs and intensify competition among hospitals to improve their quality and efficiency [42].
The mainly specific policies include as follows: (1) separating the operational system within public hospitals administration from the surveillance of governmental regulatory division [43]; (2) relaxing the entrance of private investments in the healthcare system [44]; (3) switching governmental role in the financial model of the healthcare system from supplementary suppliers to supplementary demanders, namely medical insurance. [45]
With the implementation of pro-competition policies, the hospital market, a most important market in the healthcare industry and also the main focus of this market-oriented reform, changes dramatically no matter in scale and the constitutes [46]. Use the number of hospitals to briefly describe the changes in the hospital market, as shown in Fig. 2 below, the total number of hospitals increased from 20,291 in 2009 to 34,354 in 2019; the private hospitals expanded rapidly and their numbers exceed the public ones in 2015.
The entire framing of healthcare utilisation and these sorts of insurance models is from the US, so thanks for poisoning minds
From what I’ve learned from Chinese users is that they do pay for healthcare and they do have insurance. The insurance is essentially “medicare for all” and covers a ton of expenses. You pay like $70 per YEAR for it. That’s so you can go to the hospital and have a baby for like $10 total, for instance. Additionally, you can get private insurance which pretty much covers everything else. So that’s the system the reformed to.
It is basically if Bernie Sanders won and all his dreams came true to their full fruition.
It is basically if Bernie Sanders won and all his dreams came true to their full fruition.
Exactly. I expect the CPC to do better than a “file off the sharp edges” capitalist.
You live in the bad country because the idea of going to hospital and spending $10 to have a dream, while I think having to spend any money for hospital services is abhorrent.
It’s not exactly medicare for all and doesn’t capture 100 percent of the population, but China did get to 95 percent insurance coverage pretty quickly.
(Not as quick as if you’d nationalise healthcare delivery)
It’s a fair enough criticism, I think. But remember we are contextualizing this through the lens of western capitalism and it does not exist in that environment. I think the comparison is fine but we have to remember that we are merely trying to understand this from a perspective that makes sense to us, which is not exactly how it is existing in reality.
The CPC just opened up the ability for foreign firms to run private hospitals.
I think the first one is a Singaporean real estate company?
Really grim shit and if you literally invite it in, you will find yourself in the midst of western capitalism
Announcement below
China Expands Access for Wholly Foreign-Owned Hospitals: 9 Cities Open for Investment
Following the initial announcement in September, China released a detailed work plan for wholly foreign-owned hospitals in nine cities: Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Nanjing, Suzhou, Fuzhou, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and the entire island of Hainan. This prompt follow-up demonstrates a strong commitment to opening up the healthcare sector and supporting foreign investment.
On November 29, 2024, the National Health Commission (NHC) together with three other government departments announced the detailed work plan for the establishment of wholly foreign-owned hospitals in nine major cities, including Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Nanjing, Suzhou, Fuzhou, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and the entire island of Hainan.
This is a prompt follow-up of the pilot policy released in September this year, which lifts bans on foreign-invested enterprises (FIEs) engaging in cell and gene therapy (CGT) in selected free trade zones (FTZs) and permits wholly foreign-owned hospitals in selected cities.
This reform is part of a broader agenda to modernize key industries, including healthcare and telecommunications, by addressing growing domestic demand and encouraging foreign participation.
Why not post the rest of that announcement? Is it because it harms your point?
These hospitals will be private but are clearly not an attempt to privatize the healthcare industry there. They are only permitted in a few of the already designated special economic zones. In order for them to be able to be covered under China’s payment they have to price everything according to China’s pricing policy. In other words, they don’t get to set any prices. They have to subject themselves to direct supervision by regulators. They don’t even have the ability to do any transplants, no psychiatric hospital stuff, and so on. Additionally, they have to be plugged into everything any other hospital has to be plugged into in China for medical record keeping. On top of all that it’s not like China sells the land to these companies and lets them run wild. They give them a conditional land-lease. If they don’t live up to all the expectations given to them it will be revoked and their facilities appropriated by the Chinese government, as should happen.
Functionally, this is NOTHING like western capitalism except a private company is going to be building these hospitals. If they can make a profit then they will get that but if they don’t China will literally not give a shit and just take them over.
I think making comparisons is fine. I think there are comparable things. But cherry picking the parts of a news release you like to try and make your point is cheap and you know it.
Before I respond to your post, just think about what much be going through the mind of the policy and planning staff that think this will be deliver better care.
The CPC approach to healthcare makes it very easy to put the critical in critical support and it’s entirely unnecessary.
On cutting off the article - No? It supports my point. Assuming you’re talking about the following paragraphs, the approach is unfortunately entirely consistent with the business model of private hospitals in countries with a decent public hospital sector - private hospitals suck up resourcing while only overtreating the rich for simple procedures. Then planners will point to the lack of incentives and do more opening up to help these foreign firms.
In 2023, the number of hospitals in China topped 38,000, with public hospitals accounting for less than one-third of the total. However, public hospitals accounted for 83.5 percent of the total number of patient visits nationwide, according to official data.
Since 2000, China has allowed the establishment of joint-venture medical institutions with foreign investors. After more than 20 years of development, there are currently over 60 foreign-invested joint-venture medical institutions in the country.
The work plan explicitly excludes traditional Chinese medicine hospitals and prohibits the foreign acquisition of public hospitals.
Aiming to introduce high-level international medical resources, improve the supply of medical services, and optimize the business environment, the document specifies pilot requirements, management measures, and other related terms.
The plan permits wholly foreign-owned hospitals to operate as general, specialty, and rehabilitation hospitals.
It also includes restrictions. For instance, such hospitals are barred from performing medical activities with significant medical or ethical risks, such as human organ transplantation.
On to your post
These hospitals will be private but are clearly not an attempt to privatize the healthcare industry there
Didn’t say the CPC was wholesale privatising the healthcare sector
They are only permitted in a few of the already designated special economic zones
We can have a little profit driven healthcare as a treat
China’s payment they have to price everything according to China’s pricing policy. In other words, they don’t get to set any prices
So take a guess how they’ll make profits
They have to subject themselves to direct supervision by regulators.
Literally the bare minimum
They don’t even have the ability to do any transplants, no psychiatric hospital stuff, and so on.
Private hospitals don’t tend to go for expensive, complex procedures. You want to churn through stuff like joint replacements and arthroscopies
To the other points mentioned, none of these are inconsistent with capitalism. 99 year leases and a stronger state reflect most of the 20th century until the rise of neoliberalism capitalism.
this is NOTHING like western capitalism except a private company is going to be [running] these hospitals
So this is nothing like western capitalism except you have a private company being paid to deliver essential healthcare, with the idea that this hospital will deliver better services than public hospitals and be competitive because of the increased focus on productivity due to the profit motive?
Unfortunately this is an issue in China as well
The entire framing of healthcare utilisation and these sorts of insurance models is from the US, so thanks for poisoning minds
From what I’ve learned from Chinese users is that they do pay for healthcare and they do have insurance. The insurance is essentially “medicare for all” and covers a ton of expenses. You pay like $70 per YEAR for it. That’s so you can go to the hospital and have a baby for like $10 total, for instance. Additionally, you can get private insurance which pretty much covers everything else. So that’s the system the reformed to.
It is basically if Bernie Sanders won and all his dreams came true to their full fruition.
We live in the bad place.
Exactly. I expect the CPC to do better than a “file off the sharp edges” capitalist.
You live in the bad country because the idea of going to hospital and spending $10 to have a dream, while I think having to spend any money for hospital services is abhorrent.
It’s not exactly medicare for all and doesn’t capture 100 percent of the population, but China did get to 95 percent insurance coverage pretty quickly.
(Not as quick as if you’d nationalise healthcare delivery)
It’s a fair enough criticism, I think. But remember we are contextualizing this through the lens of western capitalism and it does not exist in that environment. I think the comparison is fine but we have to remember that we are merely trying to understand this from a perspective that makes sense to us, which is not exactly how it is existing in reality.
The CPC just opened up the ability for foreign firms to run private hospitals.
I think the first one is a Singaporean real estate company?
Really grim shit and if you literally invite it in, you will find yourself in the midst of western capitalism
Announcement below
Why not post the rest of that announcement? Is it because it harms your point?
These hospitals will be private but are clearly not an attempt to privatize the healthcare industry there. They are only permitted in a few of the already designated special economic zones. In order for them to be able to be covered under China’s payment they have to price everything according to China’s pricing policy. In other words, they don’t get to set any prices. They have to subject themselves to direct supervision by regulators. They don’t even have the ability to do any transplants, no psychiatric hospital stuff, and so on. Additionally, they have to be plugged into everything any other hospital has to be plugged into in China for medical record keeping. On top of all that it’s not like China sells the land to these companies and lets them run wild. They give them a conditional land-lease. If they don’t live up to all the expectations given to them it will be revoked and their facilities appropriated by the Chinese government, as should happen.
Functionally, this is NOTHING like western capitalism except a private company is going to be building these hospitals. If they can make a profit then they will get that but if they don’t China will literally not give a shit and just take them over.
I think making comparisons is fine. I think there are comparable things. But cherry picking the parts of a news release you like to try and make your point is cheap and you know it.
Before I respond to your post, just think about what much be going through the mind of the policy and planning staff that think this will be deliver better care.
The CPC approach to healthcare makes it very easy to put the critical in critical support and it’s entirely unnecessary.
On cutting off the article - No? It supports my point. Assuming you’re talking about the following paragraphs, the approach is unfortunately entirely consistent with the business model of private hospitals in countries with a decent public hospital sector - private hospitals suck up resourcing while only overtreating the rich for simple procedures. Then planners will point to the lack of incentives and do more opening up to help these foreign firms.
On to your post
Didn’t say the CPC was wholesale privatising the healthcare sector
We can have a little profit driven healthcare as a treat
So take a guess how they’ll make profits
Literally the bare minimum
Private hospitals don’t tend to go for expensive, complex procedures. You want to churn through stuff like joint replacements and arthroscopies
To the other points mentioned, none of these are inconsistent with capitalism. 99 year leases and a stronger state reflect most of the 20th century until the rise of neoliberalism capitalism.
Not sure they can take them over either without compensation, China keeps signing things with ISDS provisions. Here’s an article about China doing the thing to South Korea https://isds.bilaterals.org/?aborted-for-profit-hospital=&lang=en
So this is nothing like western capitalism except you have a private company being paid to deliver essential healthcare, with the idea that this hospital will deliver better services than public hospitals and be competitive because of the increased focus on productivity due to the profit motive?
Fr, I hate how the only solution people can come up with for improving healthcare is “competition”