My take is, don’t do explicitly bad stuff, like, don’t create malicious software of work for military, or DARPA, cia, NSA, google, etc.

But also, your work shouldn’t be necessarily divine. No work is. If you look Into it, even being a Linux kernel Dev isn’t that divine. Just don’t be a direct cause of bad things, and I think that is good enough.

And get payed good and use that money for good stuff. Kind of a robinhood job. If you can earn for example 200K from a not super evil company and give 30K to people who need it, is much better than earning 100K working in a open source startup or whatever and not help other people, and also be poorer.

Of course, it’s really important how much you enjoy your job and if you are excited to go to work everyday.

If you’re not tied to anything in particular and can do a well paid job for a few years or longer somewhere else, there is no reason not to do that. You can at least apply and see where it goes.

Regarding ethics, I would say it’s very very hard to avoid all unethical things you contribute to, so you shouldn’t think that working or not working at an arms manufacturer or in a related field isn’t contributing to some statistical death somewhere, even in devops, even if you were just a janitor. You can negotiate hard so at least it’s expensive for them.

At the end of the day, those companies will continue to operate, because of political reasons. I don’t think it’s hypocritical to take a job at such a company and at the same time to be active politically to “tip the scale” in the other direction. You can support making weapons, but oppose using them. But you really have to oppose it.

…at least work for an industry I don’t think is evil.

You will honestly struggle to find one. That’s not how the system works. Companies exist to provide a service, yes, but also to drive up the price and profit at any means available to them. In very rare circumstances, some companies will try to explicitly avoid this and do “fair trade”. But even those and especially everyone else ties back into the bigger economic context, where “evil” is done by some company and not being stopped by everyone else.

It’s a marathon. Do things that let you sleep at night. Do little good things where you can, if you feel strongly about a particular issue, connect with a community that is active in that area. Or you can just donate.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the best way to stop truly evil things, is to stop them politically. Not necessarily because it’s the easiest way, but instead because it’s the only to achieve a really effective solution. You or a group can only do so much, but if there is a law, suddenly a lot of people start to care about the topic.

I was working at a larger cybersec company, and eventually left for a smaller indie gamedev studio, especially because even though I really tried to change it, even getting to a pseudo Red-Team Lead position (as in, I was still officially barely-not-a-junior pentester, but had responsibilities of a RT lead because I was the only one who showed initiative in trying to actually do a good job), it was quickly apparent that our job is not to deliver a good product and make the world more secure, but only to.make as much money for our investors as we can. And I really refuse to do that, since I’m still naive and wanted to do cybersec because it felt right, and its something the world desperately needs.

Even though I earn more than half of what I did, I’m way more happier because my job is a smaller startup made mostly of friends, including the CEOs, that also has amazing projects and a responsible business plan.

But, I have one enormous advantage - I’m young, I don’t have my own familly, I share pretty cheap rent with my partner, so even with the smaller pay, I still comfortably earn around 1/3 more than I need. I don’t regret it, working for people I respect and trust, where everything I make goes back to improving the company instead of some random venture vultures that don’t give a fuck about anything other than profits. It’s amazing.

But, a good alternative I’ve been considering is to get a cybersec job that pays well, no matter the morals, but work only 1/3 or less of days. (So, like a part time). I would still earn the same, but I won’t be so bummed by the job since it’s such a small time wasted, while also having 2/3 of time to do my own projects that actually fulfill me. I’d recommend this instead of working fulltime for a cause.

Doing moral good and ethical things is a requirement of being a dev, in my view. I’m lucky because I managed to get paid a lot and can be ethical. If something seems wrong to me I don’t do it. I have been fired for this before, and I just got another better paying job. Your decision is your own to make.

Im surprised the medical pays on the level of financial. The thing to me is the more financially independent you make yourself the easier it is in future to take jobs less for financial reasons. Just don’t allow your lifestyle to need the money. Live a simple lifestyle and save and invest. Get and pay off a house, fund your retirement, eliminate debt. If you have all that done then take the job you find most fulfilling.

Personally, I do find the morality relevant to my motivation, so I like to imagine that I’m also able to get to a better-paid position that way.

But other factors can obviously affect that, too. I am still at my first, can’t-be-picky job, because I like the team. Well, and because I’m not actively doing bad, since all our projects get cancelled for nonsense political reasons anyways. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My approach to ethicality so far was basically, I need to start somewhere before I can be picky.

Yep. Gotta eat.

But right now I’m looking at job offers, and it seems like if I move to a tech, medical, or financial company, I could likely see a salary increase of 30-50%,

These probably won’t get sainthood, but generally do more good than evil in the world. Except finance obviously. (I’m kidding…sort of. I consider myself allowed to be mean to finance tech bros, as I was one. We sucked to work with. There are good financial products that make people better off but there’s a lot more predatory ones.

I worked for a place that did a shitty job providing good products, mostly. Getting up for work felt ambivalent, most days.

It’s hard to feel good about working in an overpriced building when some customers are struggling.)

at least work for an industry I don’t think is evil

It’s hard to put a price on this. It feels great to get up in the morning and know that all of my efforts are making people better off. (I’m no longer a finance tech bro.)

Keep an eye on local government and education positions. It’s easy to feel good about keeping roads cleared and classrooms up and running.

They do always pay less, but they don’t have to be a drop in pay, particularly for someone just starting out.

Don’t be afraid to take the interview and tell them they’re not paying enough. They need told a couple times, then they go do the paperwork to correct their pay range. So I consider the occasional “wasted” interview an investement in the future chance that I can work with them.