Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said 'there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Canada would become part of the United States,' on the same day U.S. President-elect Donald Trump declared that he’s open to using 'economic force' to acquire Canada.
“annex” implies they actually have a claim on Canada. It would be an invasion.
And in such an invasion, you’d best believe that the European nations would love to come to Canada’s aid because a) They will also be needing the resources, and b) They like us a hell of a lot more than they like the U.S.
So no…a U.S invasion wouldn’t be an annexation, it would be the U.S. getting it’s shit kicked in by virtually every country in the world coming to Canada’s defence.
Europe would definitely not come to our aid. There’s nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Plus they barely came to the aid of a country being invaded in their own back yard. If they fear provoking Russia’s ire, they wouldn’t touch the US with a ten thousand foot pole.
Even if they did declare war against the US, it wouldn’t tip the balance of power.
It’d be the US kicking everyone elses shit in, until the British and French let the nukes fly,
I hate to break it to you but the US is multitudes more powerful than the rest of NATO, NATO can still burn the US, but they’ll burn with it. Same goes for Russia.
conventionally, the US is the world hegemon as far as naval and air power goes, they are unbeatable.
what the US doesn’t have the stomach for , is occupation. they were defeated by mountain men with 70 year old Kalashnikovs on the other side of the world, who were so culturally different from them they might as well have been aliens, Just imagine what it’d be like against an enemy on your doorstep that looks and talks just like you. that you cant tell from your own. Wait, you dont’ even need to imagine, because it already happened, Look at how Russia’s occupation was torn apart by the Ukrainian resistance. The only way they ever secure land is by bombing it to dust and moving in.
and unlike Russia, America has a formidable faction within its own borders who would revolt and start a civil war if the Trump/MAGA administration became hostile to America’s friends and allies.
Americans traditionally aren’t interested in the land itself. Just the access to their resources under a puppet government. If America really wants to annex Canada it probably won’t be by conventional war.
conventionally, the US is the world hegemon as far as naval and air power goes, they are unbeatable.
I see what you’re saying. But that Hegemony is based entirely on military bases spread on foreign soil in countries who would immediately upon the start of hostilities annex them. No one “individual” American military base could possibly win a battle surrounded by a suddenly hostile foreign country that they now find themselves an enclave in. Just like that…within days, American’s global reach would vanish (with the exception of naval power of course)
We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It’s a great discussion to have, though I’d never like to see it proven one way or another.
I was speaing from the point of view as someone in north america having to deal with american aggression, Yeah the US would lose its bases across the world in short order, but No one is going to be able to come to the aid of Canada or Mexico if they were invaded. Not as long as the US still has the USN,
and the next two largest Navies, are also states Canada would never accept help from, Russia and China… China is a hard sell, if America was hostile, and China extended a hand, yeah there’d be strings attached, If it were my choice, I’d take it if it meant it was Only Chinese assistance. Russian on the other hand, The Russian ideology is incompatible with life as we know it, I’d rather go down fighting than ever shake hands with Z-Nazis who I personally believe are the ringmasters of this entire world crisis with America turning the way it is.
(also a good portion of the Russian navy is creating a coral reef at the bottom of the black sea, where it belongs)
If the US became Imperialistic, and I mean old-school Imperial, non of this new age cultural or economic imperialism, then they could probably “take” their first conquest or two without much opposition. In this case Canada and Greenland would probably fall to US occupation.
It’s what would happen next that would destroy the American Empire. Everything you said is true, and every one of the US’s allies would wonder if they are next. If Canada, the US’s closest ally for generations cannot trust the US who can? The clear answer is no one. I would expect a swift unravelling of the global order. The EU would be an interesting case. With a belligerent (but failing) Russia to the East, and their long standing guarantor of peace suddenly no better, would it crack under the stress or would something more capable emerge?
It’s a horrific dystopian future we face, the entire globe would be plunged into an era of increased tension and military spending in the best case.
The current US “empire” has shown that buying something is cheaper and more beneficial than conquering something. In a few short years Trump might effectively vastly increase the cost of power from Canadian hydro facilities and at the same time scare away any others that would do business with them.
Many European nations want to fight to defend Canada but can not unite in this purpose as many nations consider how it will benefit them to come out having supported the winning side. Others because they don’t want to fight against a nation with such a powerful military.
During the ongoing debate on what to do, America completes its invasion of Canada and declares it an Annexation and gives anyone who objects to this in Canada the old American highschool treatment.
and America inherits an insurgency of people that effortlessly blends in to its own population, and pikachu faces as “terroist” attacks from Canadian sympathisers and Enraged Moderates and Democrat leaning types decide that its time for a civil war against the Tyrannic regime.
However, if America’s attempt at Annexation began because Canada began pursuing greater economic ties with Europe in an attempt to distance themselves from the United States, then it changes Europe’s reaction.
Canada spent the last few years building their own refineries so as to not be dependent on the United States, allowing them more freedom as to who and where they sell their oil. They’ve fortified their power grid and increased their military spending. They’ve even made some overtures towards ratifying a more formal relationship with the EU because their vast resource wealth gives them bargaining power, which opens up the possibility of EU nukes on Canada’s southern border.
America feeling threatened by that is what ignites the attempt at annexation. EU’s response wouldn’t be so fractured in that case because their very existence relies on having Canada’s resources.
(This is all alternative history of course. But it’s a fun game to play)
And no, America wouldn’t be “The winning side” in a war against every other developed nation. They are the largest single military, yes. But put enough countries together in what we’ll call a “coalition of the anti-dickhead-president”, who are both fighting physically AND embargoing them financially, they wouldn’t have a chance in the long run. Canada’s first move is to flip a switch in Quebec and cut the power to the entire eastern seaboard. They’re second move is to shut the pipelines to the American refineries.
Even the largest military runs on oil. The U.S. is far more dependent on the rest of the world than it thinks. It essentially maintains it’s military supremacy at the whim of the rest of the world, not despite it.
“annex” implies they actually have a claim on Canada. It would be an invasion.
And in such an invasion, you’d best believe that the European nations would love to come to Canada’s aid because a) They will also be needing the resources, and b) They like us a hell of a lot more than they like the U.S.
So no…a U.S invasion wouldn’t be an annexation, it would be the U.S. getting it’s shit kicked in by virtually every country in the world coming to Canada’s defence.
Europe would definitely not come to our aid. There’s nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Plus they barely came to the aid of a country being invaded in their own back yard. If they fear provoking Russia’s ire, they wouldn’t touch the US with a ten thousand foot pole.
Even if they did declare war against the US, it wouldn’t tip the balance of power.
It’d be the US kicking everyone elses shit in, until the British and French let the nukes fly, I hate to break it to you but the US is multitudes more powerful than the rest of NATO, NATO can still burn the US, but they’ll burn with it. Same goes for Russia.
conventionally, the US is the world hegemon as far as naval and air power goes, they are unbeatable.
what the US doesn’t have the stomach for , is occupation. they were defeated by mountain men with 70 year old Kalashnikovs on the other side of the world, who were so culturally different from them they might as well have been aliens, Just imagine what it’d be like against an enemy on your doorstep that looks and talks just like you. that you cant tell from your own. Wait, you dont’ even need to imagine, because it already happened, Look at how Russia’s occupation was torn apart by the Ukrainian resistance. The only way they ever secure land is by bombing it to dust and moving in.
and unlike Russia, America has a formidable faction within its own borders who would revolt and start a civil war if the Trump/MAGA administration became hostile to America’s friends and allies.
Americans traditionally aren’t interested in the land itself. Just the access to their resources under a puppet government. If America really wants to annex Canada it probably won’t be by conventional war.
I see what you’re saying. But that Hegemony is based entirely on military bases spread on foreign soil in countries who would immediately upon the start of hostilities annex them. No one “individual” American military base could possibly win a battle surrounded by a suddenly hostile foreign country that they now find themselves an enclave in. Just like that…within days, American’s global reach would vanish (with the exception of naval power of course)
We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It’s a great discussion to have, though I’d never like to see it proven one way or another.
I was speaing from the point of view as someone in north america having to deal with american aggression, Yeah the US would lose its bases across the world in short order, but No one is going to be able to come to the aid of Canada or Mexico if they were invaded. Not as long as the US still has the USN,
and the next two largest Navies, are also states Canada would never accept help from, Russia and China… China is a hard sell, if America was hostile, and China extended a hand, yeah there’d be strings attached, If it were my choice, I’d take it if it meant it was Only Chinese assistance. Russian on the other hand, The Russian ideology is incompatible with life as we know it, I’d rather go down fighting than ever shake hands with Z-Nazis who I personally believe are the ringmasters of this entire world crisis with America turning the way it is.
(also a good portion of the Russian navy is creating a coral reef at the bottom of the black sea, where it belongs)
There would be a problem of “you go first…”
If the US became Imperialistic, and I mean old-school Imperial, non of this new age cultural or economic imperialism, then they could probably “take” their first conquest or two without much opposition. In this case Canada and Greenland would probably fall to US occupation.
It’s what would happen next that would destroy the American Empire. Everything you said is true, and every one of the US’s allies would wonder if they are next. If Canada, the US’s closest ally for generations cannot trust the US who can? The clear answer is no one. I would expect a swift unravelling of the global order. The EU would be an interesting case. With a belligerent (but failing) Russia to the East, and their long standing guarantor of peace suddenly no better, would it crack under the stress or would something more capable emerge?
It’s a horrific dystopian future we face, the entire globe would be plunged into an era of increased tension and military spending in the best case.
The current US “empire” has shown that buying something is cheaper and more beneficial than conquering something. In a few short years Trump might effectively vastly increase the cost of power from Canadian hydro facilities and at the same time scare away any others that would do business with them.
Alternative timeline…
Many European nations want to fight to defend Canada but can not unite in this purpose as many nations consider how it will benefit them to come out having supported the winning side. Others because they don’t want to fight against a nation with such a powerful military.
During the ongoing debate on what to do, America completes its invasion of Canada and declares it an Annexation and gives anyone who objects to this in Canada the old American highschool treatment.
and America inherits an insurgency of people that effortlessly blends in to its own population, and pikachu faces as “terroist” attacks from Canadian sympathisers and Enraged Moderates and Democrat leaning types decide that its time for a civil war against the Tyrannic regime.
However, if America’s attempt at Annexation began because Canada began pursuing greater economic ties with Europe in an attempt to distance themselves from the United States, then it changes Europe’s reaction.
Canada spent the last few years building their own refineries so as to not be dependent on the United States, allowing them more freedom as to who and where they sell their oil. They’ve fortified their power grid and increased their military spending. They’ve even made some overtures towards ratifying a more formal relationship with the EU because their vast resource wealth gives them bargaining power, which opens up the possibility of EU nukes on Canada’s southern border.
America feeling threatened by that is what ignites the attempt at annexation. EU’s response wouldn’t be so fractured in that case because their very existence relies on having Canada’s resources.
(This is all alternative history of course. But it’s a fun game to play)
And no, America wouldn’t be “The winning side” in a war against every other developed nation. They are the largest single military, yes. But put enough countries together in what we’ll call a “coalition of the anti-dickhead-president”, who are both fighting physically AND embargoing them financially, they wouldn’t have a chance in the long run. Canada’s first move is to flip a switch in Quebec and cut the power to the entire eastern seaboard. They’re second move is to shut the pipelines to the American refineries.
Even the largest military runs on oil. The U.S. is far more dependent on the rest of the world than it thinks. It essentially maintains it’s military supremacy at the whim of the rest of the world, not despite it.