As a worker in the 1970s, I looked forward to a Jimmy Carter administration. By the end of his term in office, like millions of my union sisters and brothers, I felt betrayed.
  • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    2 days ago

    this article is garbage. taken by itself, his presidency had problems sure. compared to actual failures - including reagan - the man was stellar.

    especially where it counted, piety without dogma, patriotism without jingoism, willing to risk his own life for a lifetime of service, carter was so much better than most of the schlubs we see.

    reagan won through treason, never forget he pulled the same bullshit nixon did, conservatives never care if it requires dealing with hostage takers or prolonging wars as long as they get elected. fucking scumbags

  • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
    303·
    5 days ago

    Fuck man, to get back to a US president that actually cared about labor you probably need to go all the way back to FDR. JFK is debatable - RFK (not the junior fuck) would have probably been a strong advocate but JFK was more centrist.

    • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
      291·
      5 days ago

      We really gotta stop using “centrist” instead of pro-corporate. That’s just establishment sleight of hand to make pro-corporate policies look like the defaults.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        5 days ago

        If you like - personally centrist, in my mind, just means “Doesn’t stand for shit except self enrichment”

        • Raymond Shannon
          1·
          5 days ago

          At best, a centrist indirectly supports the status quo, which in our time is Neoliberalism, at worst, they’re ghouls underneath that mask.

      • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
        1·
        4 days ago

        Especially because the corporate support increases from center to right. Libertarians want to eliminate regulations on businesses, and the far right wants to accelerate inequality by lifting regulations on, and subsidizing the overhead for, the wealthiest corporations.

        I agree that pro-corporate makes far more sense than centrist. “Not far-left” would also work, but it’s clunky.

      • GulbuddinHekmatyar
        33·
        5 days ago

        People like fdr only cared about white workers

        Hmmph… with a mindset like that, you could read settlers, lmao (It’s just a joke, never read, in my life)

        But then again, this book might be too extreme for your tastes.

        • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
          52·
          5 days ago

          Wait are we now pretending like fdr, the guy who threw thousands of Asia. Americans in camps was not a piece of shit? At best he was not against black rights, but he was not about to spend political capital in helping black people. He was one of those so called allies who claims he wants equality for black people, but wants black people to behave, earn it and wait a few decades. That’s no ally at all.

          • GulbuddinHekmatyar
            1·
            3 days ago

            Now that I think of it, he’s a POS. But granted, I guess what rose-tinted my glasses towards him is him being president to declare war against the fascists of Japan, Italy, and Nazi (the latter, prolly conditionally) and his lend-lease aid to USSR.

            I can say he was a necessary evil, but no long-term ally indeed

  • thrawn@lemmy.world
    4025·
    5 days ago

    Kind of a weird question— and I’m not defending whatever the article is alleging— but what’s the point of trying to smear Carter’s memory?

    He’s dead. Nobody praises the bad things he might have done. This feels like an attempt to instill even more tiredness into an already exhausted society— “see? Even the guy everyone likes sucked! Nobody should be thought of as good, you must keep this in mind.”

    This doesn’t help unions. This doesn’t help the left. This doesn’t help anyone. Americans are rightfully haggard and all remaining energy should be spent trying to keep the upcoming administration in chaos to minimize harm or supporting good people. Why waste time trying to diminish the memory of a man who, far as I can tell, has done nothing but good the past 40 years?

    And fuck, haven’t we had enough negativity? Many days I avoid social media entirely because it’s just negativity upon negativity. I genuinely can’t fathom a single positive or useful takeaway from media like this.

    • Feyd@programming.dev
      346·
      5 days ago

      Why shouldn’t someone that felt betrayed by a politician write about their experience? Why shouldn’t people learn about these perspectives?

      “Can everyone quit being so negative” is an awful take when talking about politics/politicians.

      • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        because it only makes sense in a vacuum, if you compare carter’s time to anyone else’s, it holds up fine if not great.

        it’s bullllllshit

      • thrawn@lemmy.world
        912·
        5 days ago

        Why shouldn’t people learn about these perspectives?

        Well yeah, that’s why I’m asking what the point is. What is there to be learned from a bad story on this particular dead individual? I said a few times that I can see no discernible societal benefit. I’d love to see even a hypothetical of how this could lead to positive change.

        I hate to be so results-oriented. Really, I do. But the left has lost and lost and lost so I struggle to see a purpose in aiming leftist attention away from the upcoming grim future.

        “Can everyone quit being so negative”

        I’ve noticed that people are more likely to respond to the last thing said, as if the rest was skimmed or forgotten. When I said it was more important to keep the upcoming administration in chaos, did you think I meant by praising them? Negativity is obviously useful when targeted correctly.

        If you reread the comment, it’s pretty clear that my issue is with seemingly pointless negativity— the comment literally begins with “what’s the point?” Like I said, absolutely nobody is praising the bad things Carter may have done. The full focus is on the 40 years of civil service following his presidency. It’s almost always preceded with “he may not have been a good president, but…”

        Aiming the limited public attention space at dead Jimmy Carter’s actions from over 40 years ago serves only the people presently planning on killing unions. Yet instead of trying to convince voters that unions aren’t that bad— something I’ve convinced even business owners of, when it’s not their employees— people would rather sit here and turn the never-ending stream of negativity on Current Famous Person.

        So really, just tell me the point. If you have one I’m happy to give you that, and if it somehow outweighs the downside of leftist infighting, I’d be thrilled to admit wrong. I’m not here to pick fights and genuinely want to believe the left is trying to generate positive results or that this is article will do that. It’s been pretty hopeless recently watching the right surge forward while the left goes at each other and manages nothing.

        Hell, Luigi Mangione alone changed more for society than we’ve managed in years. Probably because he wasn’t (allegedly) aiming at the wrong guy.

        • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
          71·
          4 days ago

          I’m only going to answer the initial question of why they should bring up Carter’s failures now that he is dead. And that answer is what we saw happen in this country in 2016 and this last November. And the intervening years between 2020 and now.

          The democratic party is holding Carter up as some bastion of leftist ideology that should be the antithesis of conservatism. But he’s not. At least not while he was president. And we now have neoliberals like Biden, Harris, Clinton, and yes even Obama who are painting a picture of liberalism around right wing centrism that is doing literally nothing for the working poor. Obamacare has been an utter disaster simply because it catered to the insurance companies while only offering some governmental pocket change to the American people. Biden stepped in to break the train conductors so that the country’s commerce wouldn’t be too badly impacted. All while ignoring the literal train wreck that is our failing railway infrastructure. Every “win” the Democrats have ends up being a loss for the American people. Meanwhile the Republican douche bags get to clean up by sowing dissent and disgruntlement while promising to fix everything and like the author of this article many people, in their unbridled frustration, turn around and vote for those assholes thinking that anything different would be better.

          Which is why we are where we are.

          That is why, as we reflect of Carter’s life, we should remember his many failures as president along with his good deeds after he left office.

          • thrawn@lemmy.world
            11·
            4 days ago

            Good point and I generally agree. I suppose it comes down to:

            But he’s not. At least not while he was president.

            Almost every time someone praises Carter, it’s prefaced with “presidency aside”. His presidency has been looked down upon for decades. If he hadn’t followed it with decades of humanitarian service, he wouldn’t be remembered.

            Perhaps I just don’t see the Dems’ lines about how he’s the ideal leftist. In that context I understand the need to discuss the bads. But having not seen, well, any praise ever for his life as a politician this article comes off as trying to keep leftist spirits down. Still, the Dems doing that would fit right into the MO, so yeah good point.

        • Feyd@programming.dev
          84·
          4 days ago

          The truth is important, regardless of how many pseudointellectual walls of text you generate.

          • thrawn@lemmy.world
            45·
            4 days ago

            Insult and run: the standard response when you can’t actually defend your opinions. Some can explain why they hold a position, but this sure is easier.

            • Feyd@programming.dev
              52·
              4 days ago

              If you want people to engage with you more, you should engage with what they want sincerely and succinctly instead of of making massive low density essays that don’t have content your previous post didn’t have. If you get these kinds of responses regularly maybe it’s time for some introspection?

              • thrawn@lemmy.world
                1·
                4 days ago

                Yeah I can monologue a bit, but I have found that explaining in full avoids miscommunication and eventually gets a real response. I do get the weak replies that can’t justify their own ideas, but in my entire time on Lemmy, I have always eventually gotten a real explanation. Even this time.

                I’d wade through a hundred of yous to get to someone willing to engage in length. It’s always worth it.

                • Feyd@programming.dev
                  1·
                  4 days ago

                  The problem is that low information density writing is disrespectful of other people’s time. You could have said what you said in 4 paragraphs in 2 sentences, but you wasted the time of every person that reads your post instead.

                  Doesn’t help that complaining about people making and sharing blog posts because you think it is bad political strategy is asinine in the first place.

    • AntiOutsideAktionEnglish
      238·
      5 days ago

      Baffling.

      We need to whitewash a genocidal war criminal because civility politics and uniting against trump. Because unique to one of ‘our good ones’ the event of their passing IS NOT a good time to retrospect their lives and impact. Because aren’t we tired of the divisiveness of questioning our betters?

      Starting to think liberals’ brains haven’t actually been fried by trump, they’ve always been feckless monsters

      • K1nsey6English
        141·
        5 days ago

        Liberals brains were fried by Bill Clinton. Starting with him they couldn’t see the entire party’s hard march to the right.

  • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    3424·
    5 days ago

    The modern “heroization” of Jimmy Carter by people who never experienced his presidency has frustrated many of us who did experience it. Those were difficult times. But…

    While I appreciate this dose of reality, I don’t think the occasion of his death is the appropriate time to post it. Give the man and his family some respect.

    He was a moral man who tried his best, made mistakes, and was possibly a little better person than we all strive to be. He brokered a Middle East peace treaty that was ground breaking. No need to shit on him now.

    • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      353·
      5 days ago

      Supported the invasion of East Timor by the (then) fascist Indonesian government

      Backed apartheid South Africa’s invasion of Angola and supported right-wing militias in the country

      Blocked reparations to Vietnam after the failed US invasion and occupation

      Backed fascist militias in Afghanistan in opposition to the democratic government

      Supported the destabilisation of Grenada after the election of a socialist government leading to the eventual invasion and occupation by his successor’s administration

      Facilitated and supported a fascist coup in Liberia

      Established the ‘Carter Doctrine’ which publicly asserted US imperialist designs on the Persian Gulf, particularly its oil, and has informed US neo-colonial policy in the region ever since

      Supported murderous dictatorships in Cambodia, El Salvador, Iran, Somalia, South Korea, Turkey

      He was a monster

        • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          192·
          5 days ago

          Hexbears together strong. But also fuck Jimmy Carter so much. All my Vietnamese, Cambodian, Iranian, south american in general and Indonesian homies hate Carter (I’d list more countries but these are ones I genuinely do know people from and Carter bankroll their parents lives being a brutal struggle for survival). I hope they serve Billy Beer in hell. Being a habitat for humanity guy is fucking hilarious considering how many genocidal maniacs and right wing death squads he bank rolled. Destroying habitation and humans without a shred of humanity. Can’t wait until Bush croaks so we can have people talk about his paintings or whatever.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      251·
      5 days ago

      I don’t think the occasion of his death is the appropriate time to post it.

      no, this is exactly the time to post it because now is when everyone else is jacking off his corpse.

    • K1nsey6English
      143·
      5 days ago

      Fuck respect. He was as much of a war criminal as Kissinger.

        • geneva_convenience
          4·
          4 days ago

          Normalizing Israel with Egypt without any gain for Palestinians was a massive gain for Israel and solved nothing. Israelis got handed their peace treaties which kept others from helping Palestinians. This only prolonged the issue of the Apartheid existing.

      • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        47·
        5 days ago

        Presidents are faced with all kinds of choices between two bad options. They become known for the one they choose. We don’t get that kind of reckoning.

        Like, I voted for Kamala. Looking at me through the eye of history’s telescope, some would say I voted to support genocide in Lebanon. I could argue well, there was a worse option and I didn’t vote for that one.

        Do we know what Jimmy Carter was rejecting when he chose the options he did? I don’t.

        Like Pontius Pilate said to Jesus, “What is truth?”

        • AntiOutsideAktionEnglish
          117·
          5 days ago

          I get it, you want to whitewash him because you’re whitewashing yourself. You supported genocide and it behooves you to position yourself as if that wasn’t an affirmative choice by absolving a historic monster who actually had full agency over his actions.

    • Raymond Shannon
      112·
      5 days ago

      He was a moral man who tried his best, made mistakes, and was possibly a little better person than {most average U.S presidents} strive to be.

      That's kinda true, post-presidency, he did try to redeem himself from the U.S's usual foreign policy.

      Open to China’s rise to power

      “And do you know why? I normalized diplomatic relations with China in 1979. Since 1979 do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody? None. And we have stayed at war,” he said. The U.S., Carter said, has been at war for all but 16 years of its 242-year history. He called the United States “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” because of a tendency to try to force others to “adopt our American principles.”

      Carter suggested that instead of war, China has been investing in its own infrastructure, mentioning that China has 18,000 miles of high-speed railroad.

      “How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?” Zero, the congregation answered.

      “We have wasted I think $3 trillion,” Carter said of American military spending. “… It’s more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war and that’s why they’re ahead of us. In almost every way.

      Sympathetic to North Korea, to the point he even negiotiated with them in the 1990s to let them give up their nukes:

      “And the North Koreans suffered because the United States did everything possible to destroy their economy. And we did everything possible to boost South Korea’s economy. And so we condemn North Korea because its economy is lagging behind and its people are starving.”

      And a Chavista:

      “Electoral process in Venezuela is the best in the world." The comments were made in 2012, just three weeks before Venezuelans re-elected Chávez for his last term in office.

      “There are 92 elections that we monitor, I would say that the electoral process in Venezuela is the best in the world,” he said in an annual speech at the Carter Center in Atlanta. He stressed that the system is fully automated, which makes counting faster.

      He even admitted America’s electoral flaws

      At the time, Carter also revealed his opinion that in the US “we have one of the worst electoral processes in the world, and it’s almost entirely due to the excessive inflow of money,” he said, referring to the lack of control over private campaign donations.

      The Carter Center was one of the only Western NGOs to declare that the 2004 referendum in Venezuela (an attempted legislative coup, following the failure of the military coup in 2002) was fair and free.

      And Palestine:

      In his book Carter argues that Israel’s continued control and construction of settlements have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Middle East. That perspective, coupled with the use of the word Apartheid in the titular phrase Peace Not Apartheid, and what critics said were errors and misstatements in the book, sparked controversy. Carter has defended his book and countered that response to it “in the real world…has been overwhelmingly positive.”

      Maybe less so than FDR, but at least Carter lived to atone his former sins somewhat

      • GulbuddinHekmatyar
        10·
        5 days ago

        Emkay… seems good

        Still doesn’t exonerate from introducing Ted Lasso liberal finance capital fascism (also known as Neoliberalism)

        Introducing the hawkish national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski who did the following

        the following

        Supporting Iraq and Nicaragua contras before Reagan did it

        Supporting Angolan anti-communists and Mujahideen Afghan rebels

        Backing China and Khmer Rouge against Soviet ally Vietnam (for what? Stopping the genocide there)

        Backing East Timor and Guatemala genocides

        But what would I expect from a white sharecropper family in a SSettler SSnake society of the Disunited SStates of Amerikkka

        But okay, I guess I’ll respect that

        • Raymond Shannon
          1·
          4 days ago

          Well, I apologize… he wasn’t good during his term, and I guess post-presidency, what he did was too little to redeem himself from the overall geopolitical U.S hegemony’s bloody project

          Judging from what I hear over the threads