Disclaimer: I know the flag looks like shit. I didn’t really try and make a well done, symmetric n**i flag. The entire point is to illustrate the general intent, not to make a symmetric “asshole flag”.
Edit: the sample size isn’t that big yet, but around 20% (19.51% as of this edit) of downvotes is definitely uncannily aligned with the average percentage of far right voters… (I’d show data from the US too, but you guys haven’t yet learned how to count to three in politics… So data is severely lacking.)
I think you need to take a step away from whatever bullshit you’re engaging with online.
I had a friend who would became obsessed with knowing everything about the alt-right. He started seeing false dogwhistles. If someone sent him a message with 👌he would assume they’re a Nazi.
I think Elon is a prick who caters to the right of politics, but I don’t think he’s a Nazi or a fascist. Every time the left becomes too hyperbolic about who is a Nazi, the right uses that as ammunition.
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People can be around others without instantly becoming whatever the others are. You probably don’t know about being your own person though, clearly.
I agree. Whether through ignorance or maliciousness, these people will turn you over to authorities to be camped or killed. Yeah, they’ll cry about it after, and tell themselves they’re doing the right thing.
you’re giving Nazi sympathisers far too much credit there.
This is the hyperbole I’m talking about. This is a metaphor. All metaphors break down when you start looking for discrepancies.
Maybe I don’t see a problem with sitting down at a table with 9 Nazis because they’re friendly with me and I’m curious about why they believe they’re right (and maybe I can use the Socratic method to make them question their beliefs). That doesn’t make me a Nazi.
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Lol I’m actually very far left, and self identify as a communist. How would 9 Nazis being polite to me, make me a Nazi?
Is Daryl Davis a Nazi for befriending Nazis?
The main difference is that when Daryl Davis is done with them, they aren’t Nazis anymore. He’s actively working to better the world, one person at a time.
Elon Musk sits with Nazis and then does nothing to get them to change. No, he just gives them a louder bullhorn.
He’s really showing his Apartheid roots.
As I mentioned earlier, metaphors are pretty useless when you begin applying specifics.
“Would you jump off a cliff if your friends did it?” I trust my friends would jump off a cliff for a good reason, maybe they were running from something, so yes.
It was absolutely the wrong move to let Kayne back on the platform, and Elon is an asshole, for this, and basically everything else he has ever done.
But epistemologically, we don’t have good reason to suspect Elon is ascribes to Nazi ideology. He could’ve let Kayne back on for many other reasons; maybe he gets off on the attention (likely), maybe he just likes kanye (likely), maybe he’s a free speech absolutist (likely - unless it’s critical of him specifically (see jet tracker and parody accounts)).
right, but he did let the person who said nazi shit and went to go talk to a nazi (Nick Fuentes) back on the platform, he has overseen a massive increase in hate speech on the platform, he does comment in support of people demonizing queer identities, and he has used his power in a number of ways to silence his dissenters, so we can say that he demonstrably isn’t a free speech absolutist, he likes people who like nazis, and he is comfortable courting the favor of nazis. i think we can say that he fits the definition of a nazi sympathizer without much stretching at all.
Maybe. The point is not to say that he isn’t, just that I require a high standard of proof to say that he is. I don’t know why everyone is getting their panties in a twist, I already know he’s a bad guy, I just don’t think he checks off the requirements to be a fascist or Nazi.
Lol, and Hitler self identified as a socialist, your point?? You calling yourself the thing doesn’t matter if you don’t act like the thing you’re calling yourself.
And Musk is acting like a Nazi.
As for how being polite to Nazis makes you (and Elon) a Nazi - you’re enablers, making you actively part of giving them power. You’re making them feel welcome when they shouldn’t be welcomed anywhere. You bolster their confidence and allow them a platform to spew their hate from, and they do. Clearly that hate isn’t aimed at you (and it definitely isn’t at Musk) so obviously you don’t give a shit, but some of us aren’t that fucking privileged.
I’m sure you’re familiar with the paradox tolerance and are choosing to ignore it, but it talks exactly about people like you.
And people like you look like this to the rest of us on the left.
The paradox of tolerance presupposes the people in question have political motivations in line with something like fascism.
I simply don’t agree with the presupposition that Musk is this way inclined, so it’s a moot point.
I don’t know why you think I’m enabling Nazis. What did I ever say to give you that impression?
If you enable nazis, you are a nazi.
I know where you’re coming from. You’re saying that it’s a distinction without a difference.
What I’m saying is a distinction is a distinction. I am convinced painting in board strokes ultimately hurts the optics of antifascists.
That doesn’t even matter, they will literally use anything as ammunition. There isn’t a “more” or “less” convincing set of arguments they use to make their point, they just say a lot of things all the time and go with what seems to stick.
I’m kinda in agreement with you. The right has a seemingly limitless supply of ammo, but I don’t see that as a case for not caring if someone gives them more.
All it takes are bad slogans to entrench their beliefs. “All cops are bastards”, “math is racist”, “defund the police”, and “all white people are racist” make them think the left are insane.
More than anything, this is a war of optics, the left are more educated, more tolerant, more generous, and if we are going to deconvert anyone from the right, we need to show them we aren’t morons.
Reflexively jumping to Godwin’s law is the fastest way to lose.
You’re clearly not actually a leftist, but it’s also clear why you’d like to consider yourself one.
Here’s a free tip: you are none of things you describe if you’re willing to “give Nazis a chance”.
Where did I say I was giving Nazis a chance?
Also to claim im not “actually leftist” is a No True Scotsman fallacy.
Yeah… all cops are bastards. Period. Also…
…white people downplaying the casual white supremacism that is endemic not just to “western” society but also plainly evident in the case of Elon Musk isn’t doing a lot to dispel this belief.