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Careful, if the Enlightened Centrists discover your post, they might write some spicy comments about how broken the upvote/downvote system is!
The Enlightened USAmerican that only sees black and white has spoken!
What the fuck is an usamerican
The explicitly not Canadian Americans. Or Mexican Americans. Or Peruvian Americans. Or Argentinian Americans. Or…
TBF, the first two choices would have to be “a lot of genocide” and “much much more genocide”.
If Kamala had been elected, the left would have been free to slam her on the Gaza issue, AND she would have been free to break from Biden and say “fuck you” to Netanyahu. She had to toe the line during the election and so did we. Once the election was won, we could have rallied. We’d have been united finally, and she wouldn’t have needed Biden anymore. Now instead of pressuring a sympathetic president to end a genocide, we have to arm ourselves to die fighting a fascist president. There is no more path to less genocide. That path closed. All three genocides are gonna happen.
Zelensky is now trying to arm his country with nukes because he knows he can’t rely on America. Drag is talking to politicians in drag’s country about refugee visas for America. We’re all getting ready for mitigation and survival. We could have all been focusing on the Gaza issue instead. We could have done something.
So much cope in this comment.
Sorry, were you around for the past several elections? Perhaps the 2020 elections where, upon the progressives banding with Biden to get him elected with the expectation that we would be able to “push him to the left”, the Democratic party decided that the reason they didn’t win more seats was because Progressives had damaged their chances of winning, and they must be marginalized. Or perhaps the 2016 elections where, the target of a long running hate campaign was preferred by the party over the popular progressive candidate who was then blamed for his supporters not being won over. Or the 2012 elections where the incumbent Democrat failed to deliver on progressive policies and was a high water mark for drone strikes, but progressives helped bring the win over the candidate Republicans weren’t excited for.
I voted for Harris in hopes that she’d beat out Trump despite how much she and Biden before her discarded progressive policy. I was under no expectation of Progressives being able to do a damn thing to reach her.
Don’t forget the DNC tried and failed to ratfuck the 2008 primary in favor of Hillary as well!
Your comment is complete fantasy. Nothing would change under Harris.
And will change drastically under Trump, just not in a good way…
What’s gonna change? We’re gonna magically stop supporting fascist imperialism?
The US has been at war for all but like seven years of it’s existence. We live in a false “democracy” where people are given the illusion of choice when in reality we are like a capitalist version of the USSR. The corporations run the state.
What’s gonna change? We’re gonna magically stop supporting fascist imperialism?
Lol, the American system is hot shit, but it’s not quite yet a fascist empire. That’s like a German socialist in the 30’s claiming that the Weimar Republic is fascist, so you might as well vote for Hitler.
The US has been at war for all but like seven years of it’s existence.
That’s not how fascism is defined… If it was, the fucking Soviets would be fascist.
We live in a false “democracy” where people are given the illusion of choice when in reality we are like a capitalist version of the USSR. The corporations run the state.
And your solution is to give away what little control we are allotted to a politician who wants to make it all worse?
How are you helping this scenario at all? What mutual aid are you giving, what support network are you organizing. Seems to me you’re just whining about it all while actively making it worse.
We’ve been fascist since our founding. What do you think manifest destiny was? Where do you think hitler got his ideas from? He was greatly inspired by our treatment of native Americans and blacks.
Im involved in my community. I refuse to pay back my student loans, I refuse to pay federal taxes. I’ve campaigned for candidates before only to see them steamrolled by the DNC.
Electoralism and democracy are failures. This isn’t a democracy and you take way too much comfort in your illusion of choice.
We’ve been fascist since our founding.
Lol, something can be bad without being fascist. Words have meaning.
What do you think manifest destiny was?
Colonialism.
Where do you think hitler got his ideas from?
Italy, America, Prussia, Britain, Napoleonic France, the Russian colonization of the east… it’s almost like this is a nuanced subject or something.
Im involved in my community. I refuse to pay back my student loans, I refuse to pay federal taxes.
Lol, the refusing to pay federal taxes either means…you are lying (most likely), you don’t have a job, or you will eventually be going to federal prison. My money is you are lying.
Electoralism and democracy are failures.
And removed online has been real successful for you?
If you’ve given up on nonviolent means, why aren’t you organizing a violent revolution?
take way too much comfort in your illusion of choice.
What an edge lord. I’ve never seen someone be so proud of doing less than nothing.
I’m guessing that you, like everyone else who was comfortable voting third party… Are young, white, and male. The specific group that has no skin in the game, so they really don’t see how things can get worse. In fact, I’m sure you’ll have even more rights to do nothing with once Trump is elected, good for you.
Must be nice to be privileged enough to not even engage in harm reduction.
If you think we couldn’t have persuaded Kamala to drop Israel’s funding, if you think there’s absolutely nothing we could have done to help Gaza under any circumstances, then why make Gaza your single issue? You’re the one who says there’s nothing we could have done. Fine, then you should have continued to do nothing for Gaza, left the fighting for Gaza to us lot, and tasked yourself with preventing the other two genocides Trump was planning on.
The dems getting their asses handed to them and rightfully so across the board should force them to do some deep soul searching, and rile up their out to brunch blue no matter who supporters into giving a shit since they clearly haven’t for the past four years.
Liberal tears are tasty coming from a leftist sick of liberal bullshit. Just this time! Most important election ever! Gotta save democracy! After my team gets in I’ll push them left! so fucking exhausting listening to liberals. LMFAO if you think the left believes that if Kamala won youd be pushing her left. Where were you the last four years?!
The dems getting their asses handed to them and rightfully so across the board should force them to do some deep soul searching, and rile up their out to brunch blue no matter who supporters into giving a shit since they clearly haven’t for the past four years.
Lol, and you accuse others of fantastical thinking? When has that ever worked?
The last time this happened is when the democratic leadership pulled together to bump Bernie for Clinton. When Clinton lost to trump, did the Dems do some soul searching and go further left?
Liberal tears are tasty coming from a leftist sick of liberal bullshit.
Brb, gonna elect a fascist to get those liberal tears…
fucking exhausting listening to liberals.
You’re not a leftist, you’re just a contrarian fuckwit that doesn’t understand basic organization and mutual aid.
If you were anything but an armchair leftist, you would have a basic understanding about the importance of popular fronts in leftist history. Some of the most important organizing that allowed leftist governments to come to power in the past have been when leftist anarchist, and yes even the working and middle class, all came together to present a unified front against fascist.
When Clinton lost to trump, did the Dems do some soul searching and go further left?
Nope, I expect absolutely nothing to change. The democrat party is working exactly as designed. A foil to the left and a lapdog to corporations and the military industrial complex. They fundraise off losing. See roe vs Wade for a great example of democrat party cynicism and failure to do anything except lose and beg for money. We live in a one party system with false choices. It’s theatre.
f you were anything but an armchair leftist, you would have a basic understanding about the importance of popular fronts in leftist history. Some of the most important organizing that allowed leftist governments to come to power in the past have been when leftist anarchist, and yes even the working and middle class, all came together to present a unified front against fascist.
History shows that the liberals gladly work with the fascists. See Nazi germany for an example of capitalists fucking over the left and ending up with fascism. Because to social democrats and liberals, protecting class interests supersedes protecting lives.
Nope, I expect absolutely nothing to change.
Okay, so you were speaking dishonestly before when you were attempting to validate your opinion?
We live in a one party system with false choices. It’s theatre
That’s simply untrue. First of all, domestically the parties vary immensely in policy ranging from healthcare, labour, race, and gender. And while I would agree that for the most part Dems and Republicans generally agree in foreign policy, that is not always the case.
The most relevant being how they interact with Iran. The whole reason Israel felt comfortable with doing an ethnic cleansing is because the Trump administration ended the Nuclear agreement. Israel’s motivation isn’t just to commit a genocide, but to rope America into an all out war with Iran.
History shows that the liberals gladly work with the fascists.
Some liberals will, some liberals won’t. The idea is to sway the liberals into a popular front with leftist against fascist. You know the thing that kept fascism from spreading to France after Italy and Germany.
Because to social democrats and liberals, protecting class interests supersedes protecting lives
Except there are dozens of examples throughout history that negate that argument…
Where do you think leftist come from…? There is no other choice than to work with liberals, as that is how leftist are created. The vast majority of leftist were liberal at one point, even the fucking Soviets started with a popular front.
If we blanket reject working with liberals for common goals, there is no one to recruit from. It’s almost like mutual aid is a central tenet of leftist organization…
Please actually read a book at some point and stop regurgitating bad leftist takes from fucking tick Tok.
These are some good arguments, you should go to Washington and present them to the DNC. This isn’t Washington, this isn’t the DNC, this is Lemmy. We’re not the Democratic leadership, we’re just a bunch of anarchists. And we don’t buy your argument that you’re not responsible for the consequences of your own decisions because a democrat is to blame. You should have done the right thing even if the Dems did the wrong thing. Instead, they did the wrong thing, and you decided to do the wrong thing too. You think you get a free pass because there’s someone else to blame for your actions. You don’t.
LOL. An “anarchist” advocating voting for genocidal shitlibs. Thanks for the laughs.
The only thing of use going to Washington would be to hang most of the politicians. They only listen to their corporate donors, and I am not a corporate donor. Keep dreaming about “pushing them to the left”. LMFAO!
Anarchists notably are ok with a little genocide if it means the capitalist establishment can keep on limping along
LOL no. The democrats are entirely supportive of israel despite the occasional virtue signaling. I don’t understand why people would put Kamala on a pedistal and say maybe she’s different.
Once the election was won, we could have rallied. We’d have been united finally, and she wouldn’t have needed Biden anymore.
This is not how real life works.
Now instead of a sympathetic president
She’s not sympathetic to anyone. You don’t become president out of love and good vibes. The options were either vote for nothing to change or vote for trump to make everything worse, yet people post fanfiction on how the US will suddenly be a utopia and we just need to give the dems one last chance
The democrats are entirely supportive of israel despite the occasional virtue signaling. I don’t understand why people would put Kamala on a pedistal and say maybe she’s different.
The difference is that there are democratic representatives that are supportive of the Palestinian people. Unless you are claiming the Rashida Talib is just virtue signaling her Palestinian ethnicity.
This is not how real life works.
Says the person who voted third party in a two party system…
She’s not sympathetic to anyone. You don’t become president out of love and good vibes.
No shit, but she is sympathetic to her hold on power. If there is enough noise to challenge her hold, she very well could have had a “change of heart”.
people post fanfiction on how the US will suddenly be a utopia and we just need to give the dems one last chance
It’s called harm reduction, no is expecting any US political party to solve the countrys problem. Some of us just don’t want to live through a fascist regime.
Once the election was won, we could have rallied. We’d have been united finally, and she wouldn’t have needed Biden anymore.
This is not how real life works.
Yeah, drag knows that’s not how real life works. In real life, y’all decided fuck left unity, let’s have a fascist president and make it every queer for themselves. So now we’re making plans to help our loved ones free the country. You think we have time to go to the Gaza rallies when we’re worrying about concentration camps? We could have all been at the pro-Gaza rallies. We could have marched, blocked the streets, lit up the media. We don’t have time for that now, we’re putting our own oxygen masks on first. We could have done something. This was preventable.
Liberals aren’t left. Fuck off with your “left unity” bullshit, if you really wanted that you would’ve pressured Biden and Harris to move farther left and attract more left voters. I bet you spent your time calling people against genocide in Gaza Russian bots instead
They’ve been out to brunch for four years and any criticism of the democrat party is Russian bots.
Sounds like that since you didn’t get the opponent you wanted you are able to lay down the resistance.
I wonder how far that fight would have gone if Holocaust Harris had won lol
Holocaust Harris
Lol, the brainworms are very strong in this one.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
It would of gone just as far as it had under biden. The liberals have been out to brunch for four years, and under Harris, they would of been out to brunch for another four years. Maybe under trump they might actually do something besides ineffectual marching around with signs and pussy hats.
You’re willing to burn lives to try and win an argument. This is psychopathy
And the vote blue no matter who no matter how much genocide isn’t?
Drag voted for less genocide. You voted no preference on genocide. And you think that gives you the moral high ground, because less genocide is still genocide.
You can’t kill people twice. It’s the same amount of genocide and you’re just deluding yourself so you feel better about your choices. Instead of demanding better candidates, since you and the rest of the vote blue no matter who crowd has been out to brunch for the last four years.
And the third choice would have to be “I’m fine with either”
Last two choices are the same.
Where are all the Democrats saying that Democrats would be anti-genocide after the election?
Guess who is still in power, and guess who just backed out of their ultimatum and refused to reduce military aid to Israel even after they failed to let aid in.
and yet we still find the time to accuse a miniscule proportion of Arab-Americans struggling through trauma most of us can’t imagine instead of literally the men doing the violence
thanks for being sane tho :)
Wouldn’t that have been wild if it were the only thing on the ballot?
so close! it was actually
- harris
- trump
- and some third parties
on the top of the ballot. this post is to cause division and make you angry, nothing more. nothing is as simple as this bullshit oversimplification and i’m sick of this narrative of attacking a provably insignificant minority instead of attacking the individuals who are still fucking giving unquestioning aid to an apartheid and genocide state
Or, alternatively, this is intended to clown on .ml users, because it’s hilarious and accurate. I don’t think anybody on lemmy would not be cool with attacking Joe and Kamala and Trump on this issue, and the vote total of your comment clearly shows that lmao. (And let’s be honest, you knew it would be popular here too). In fact, lemmy is constantly attacking the US on supporting the Israeli genocide, as they should, but funnily enough, nobody here seems to attack China on the Uyghur genocide, which is the point of this meme. By acknowledging that Israel is committing genocide, China would give further impetus for investigation following the UN report which asked for such regarding the Uyghur genocide.
But whatever I guess
Is this advocating voting third party? Because that isn’t how first past the post works, third parties won’t win.
Is this advocating voting third party?
The exact opposite.
Because that isn’t how first past the post works, third parties won’t win.
That’s why the ambivalent option is the 3rd one, because the only two options they could win are bad but that was the option that so many “anti-genocide” people chose, because moral high ground is more important than trying to engineer practical outcomes.
Is that a communist vote or something?
No, it’s a Stalinist vote. Those people aren’t communists.
Stalin was undecided on genocide.
And communism too.
Imagine thinking this is clever.
The party who funded the wholesale destruction of Gaza is somehow the “less genocide party”.
People get your head out of your asses. This is embarassing as a human being.
It’s so embarrassing. Both American political parties are enthusiastically pro genocide.
Let’s leave aside all of Kamala’s statements condemning Netanyahu and his genocide for a moment. And let’s instead ask whether you’re capable of perceiving the difference between one genocide and three. That difference is millions of lives. Do millions of lives matter to you, or are they just a statistic, inseparable from the thousands already dead in Gaza?
Talk is cheap coming from a politician who speaks out of both sides of her mouth depending on the audience. She didn’t do shit as VP to stop this so why should voters assume any differently if she was president?
One genocide or three wtf are you talking about? Both parties are EQUAL when it comes to pushing American imperialism around the world. We’re a one party empire and our main export is weapons.
You’re wasting your breath, drag is Lemmy’s morally enlightened philosopher who somehow thinks non-voters are to blame for not choosing to support a genocide, but the DNC is completely blameless in their unconditional support of a fascist committing a genocide because Trump would commit it worse.
Drag’ll likely respond and start insulting your intelligence, will probably call you a nazi fascist who wants drag and all of drag’s friends dead, and then try to explain why not supporting genocide is significantly worse than supporting it.
All while acting like drag’s the ooooooooonly one who understands how the world works, how morality works, how individual understandings of the world may vary from person to person to culture.
And if you write more than 4 sentences, drag will complain that you’re long-winded and taking too many words to “be wrong.” And that you’re writing as much as you are because you “fail to understand what drag is saying.”
In other words, drag let drag’s fleeting popularity due to a post regarding drag’s preferred pronouns give drag the impression that drag is morally and intellectually superior to those around drag.
Aka, drag is a joke, don’t waste your breath arguing with Lemmy’s most enlightened
fascism supporting liberalcOmMuNiSt. 🙄In a different comment this person claimed to be an anarchist. I thanked them for the laughs.
Drag is talking about 38 million Ukrainian lives, 3 million trans American lives, and 3 million West Bank Palestinian lives. Lives which you don’t care about. Lives you are so apathetic about, you can’t even see them as different from any other statistic.
So… Explain to me how continuing to support the genocide of 3 million West Bank Palestinian lives is caring about the lives of 3 million West Bank Palestinians? And remind me… What support were the Dems showing when, the day after the election, two congressional Democrats came out and said the DNC was too woke on trans issues.
So… Explain to me how the DNC immediately scapegoating the trans community after their abysmal loss due to their own failed campaign… Is showing that they care about American trans lives? Where in her, or any Democrats campaign, was their platform for enshrining LGBTQ+ equality into law? Huh, funnily enough, drag, none of them had one.
And then… Explain to me how the DNC and Biden refusing to let Ukraine use long-range American weapons inside of Russian territory for well over two years is showing care and concern for Ukrainian people? Or, why does Ukraine, who are fighting off a foreign invader, why do they have stipulations on how they can use American weapons, but Israel can just level hospital after hospital in Gaza and that’s completely morally justified? At least Ukraine aims for strategic resource infrastructure and not apartment blocks and schools like Israel (who still is receiving Biden, and then de facto because she doesn’t do anything against it, Harris, unconditional support from the Biden admin).
Lives you are so apathetic about, you can’t even see them as different from any other statistic.
So you’re completely fine with the 43,000 Palestinian civilians who have been killed at the hands of Biden and Harris administration, those are just a statistic that you’re completely fine with because… They’re worth losing because statistically there are more lives to save in your own country.
Wow, I had to look it up, but you’re right drag… Someone choosing not to support a genocide is completely apathetic, but you, the one willing to trade Palestinian lives for American trans lives, you’re the most empathetic person I’ve ever met. Literally the definition of empathy right here, folks!!! The embodiment of the fucking Buddha right here, kill as many Palestinians as needed, they’re just collateral compared to Americans trans lives.
Again, the same lives the DNC threw under the bus the day after the election.
Good to see you’re continuing to double down on your absurdity, drag, still can’t find anyone to point the finger at besides non-voters? How many letters and phone calls have you made to your Democratic elected officials demanding they take more action against your morally just causes? I imagine none, since you seem more concerned with alienating and disenfranchising non-voters than you are actually fixing liberalism and the DNC as a whole.
If those lives were so important to you, then you and your party should have given a fuck about them while you had the chance. You don’t get to act like the morally superior good guy while refusing to make your party even 1% less genocidal for any reason ever. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
The party who funded the wholesale destruction of Gaza is somehow the “less genocide party”.
The funding was passed with bipartisan support, and always has. The funding is also supposed to have guardrails that limit it being used for genocide, and while the Dems are ineffectual at actually enforcing those guardrails Trump has already said that he wants Israel to finish the job and tends to follow through on his worst statements.
Anyone who chose not to vote for the possibility of less genocide (on top of a million other negative things that will come out of a Trump presidency) chose more genocide.
