- cross-posted to:
- bbc@rss.ponder.cat
- cross-posted to:
- bbc@rss.ponder.cat
Summary
Donald Trump’s 2024 campaign has reignited fears among undocumented migrants with promises of “mass deportations” and migrant communities are bracing for uncertainty and a new wave of nativism.
His administration plans to target those deemed public safety or national security threats, potentially reinstating workplace raids and using military resources.
Advocates warn that “collateral arrests” could sweep up migrants without criminal records.
Many, like “Dreamers” protected under DACA, fear family separations, while others, such as Carlos in NYC, hope Trump’s economic policies might benefit them.
“A lot of Latinos, those who can vote, did so because they think he [Trump] can improve the economy. That would be very good for us too,” said Carlos, an undocumented Mexican who lives in New York City.
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Smokers hope cancer reaches only ‘bad people’
Anyone that thinks that it’s going to be only ‘criminals’ that get deported forget that crossing the border without documentation is a crime. Yeah, it’s a misdemeanor, but it’s still a crime, and the Trump administration is still going to deport them when they can.
Adjudicating whether or not someone is guilty of a crime, or in the US illegally, requires a trial. Doing that for millions of people all of a sudden within a system that’s already backed up by more than a year is completely impossible.
In other words, they are absolutely talking about deporting innocent people of the wrong ethnicity without any attempt at due process, and anyone who thinks different is living in a dream world. And then, once they’re done with that batch, they plan to move on to other classes of undesirables.
requires a trial.
Not for people that are undocumented. People that are not in the us legally get hearings, but that’s policy rather than law, IIRC. Due process gets a little weird here, because the process in question isn’t a matter of law or the constitution.
Regardless - it’s not going to go well for anyone that thinks that he doesn’t mean them.
The denaturalization concept–stripping naturalized citizens of citizenship–is fa, far scarier than deportation. Once you can strip citizenship from a naturalized citizen, and once you’ve eliminated birthright citizenship, you’ve got a roadmap for stripping citizenship from anyone.
You’re right, I should have said “requires a hearing.”
It looks like there are less legal protections in place than I thought, and the “justice system” that’s holding the trial is provided by the DOJ. So you do get a hearing, but Trump has even more ability to make it into an unapologetic horror than I thought he did. That’s not good.
Correct; it’s a shitfest, and it’s going to get a lot worse.
A lot worse.
Due process gets a little weird here
That’s a strange way to say “asylum seekers don’t have rights because they’re not legally considered people by US law”…
Maybe they’re going to hold them under detention while trying millions and millions of people. Might need to build new detention facilities, of course, some kind of camps where they can concentrate the population. It’s going to take a long time too, so in the name of government efficiency they can lease them out to businesses and farms for labor while they await their trials. Work sets you free.
These camps will probably be right out side of huge fields and factories that way they can work while awaiting trial. Work hard enough and please your master and you might even get to stay here. Of course not as a free man.
It always amazes me when people, even leftists, come up with arguments like „he won’t have enough judges to deport that many people“ or „camps need supplies. How would you do that in such a short amount of time for so many immigrants?“.
These are plans by the same people that took children from their parents and put them into cages „supervised“ by thugs with batons. And they „lost“ a lot of kids in the process. And they bragged about it.
If the rule of law gets absolutely destroyed by mass deportations/internments it’s a feature, not a bug to them. You don’t need judges if you have enough thugs who „just follow orders“ „for the greater good“.
Likewise news of immigrants in camps lacking basic necessities, food and healthcare will just feed their lust for cruelty. And their base will be happy, because those immigrants „brought it upon themselves“, „can always go back to their home country if they don’t like it“ and „need to be a warning for others“.
Nothing good will come of it. People here in Germany also though that Hitler guy was a bit of a joke, failed his coup attempt, and things „would never get THAT bad“. Spoiler: it did. And then some.
you all understand this is about racism, right? this is a giant dog whistle for rounding up non-white people and getting them the fuck out of their white nationalist dream.
its not about crime, or which immigrants are good or bad. its about kicking out the brown peoples. its easy to manipulate racist voters. they are all ignorant cowards.
i think there’s so much discourse about this since Latin men voted, on the whole, for trump. there is a non zero number of people who, if trump implements his border control plan, voted for their own deportation
also, white people dont own a monopoly on racism. some of the most racist people i know are also ‘legal’ immigrants of a minority population.
no one hates immigrants more than an immigrant who made it
i’ve heard that quote a few times. but i think it’s on the whole sadder:
no one hates the poor more than a poor person who thinks they made it
This is so true. I heard sooo many times from Latinos where I work after the first Trump election that they voted pro-Trump. The ones who are here who have managed to get citizenship look down on the ones who don’t have it. It’s like a flip of light switch.
Definitely the Republican mindset. I got mine, fuck everyone else!
20 years ago I read an article in the Atlantic or New Yorker or salon or something good and it was a Japanese American author talking about going home over Thanksgiving and how her family and relatives were super gung-ho about the, then new, anti-arab, thinly veiled “anti-terrorist” initiatives that Shrub’s administration was ratcheting up after successfully getting the left to support The Patriot Act, which enshrined surveillance at a level that had never been tried before.
Anyway, the author then revealed that her grandmother had been sent to Internment camps in the 1940s in the US and her dad had been born there.
TLDR;racism overrides all rationality. If Japanese Americans who were interned as villains during WWII 100% due to pure racism can’t understand that scapegoating a minority group only leads to bad things, then the broader public has no hope.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
A supermajority of Latino voters voted for Kamala, including a majority of Latino men specifically.
The only groups that supported Trump with a majority are white people.
White people are the problem, not Hispanic and black voters.
didn’t mean to spread any misinformation. i still see in what you’ve sent me that latin men lag behind latin women by a significant margin voting about evenly between trump and harris
Yes majority was higher among women significantly.
More Latinos voted for Trump than in past elections.
I just keep seeing democrats trying to blame Latinos and blacks for their bad campaign.
Hope you’re having a good weekend 👍
thanks. you too. i see the failures as being mostly relating to misunderestimating the power of the right wing propaganda machine, even as the world over has gotten more authoritarian
The crazy thing about accusing Latinos of being sexist or racist is that Mexico currently has a female progressive president who is closer to Bernie than any other US politicians.
Trump was speaking to the economy, the thing that was highest priority for these voters. He may be lying his ass off, but he was talking about it. Meanwhile, Harris was talking about how happy she was to be supported by her 80 corporate CEO’s and going on and on about it being so exciting to have Dick and Liz Cheney’s support.
When Walz came into her campaign her lead skyrocketed, but then Kamala pivoted to the right, while Trump continued to talk about the economy. Bad move on her part.
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All those Muslim folks who voted for Trump to “punish” Harris are in for a rude awakening. This isn’t only about Hispanics.
I doubt there are a lot of illegal Muslims. Most “illegal” immigrants are from border countries.
Deporting our DACA immigrants would be really bad for the economy, talk about brain drain and also illegal immigrant workers who contribute more to the economy than they extract.
The leopards will be eating their own faces. I would need to look up numbers but fairly certain more republicans use illegal immigrant labor than democrats.
Also, the spite and told you so banter is kind of offensive. “My candidate lost so now you have to suffer the consequences,” it’s very childish and not very thoughtful or helpful.
Legal or illegal matters very little. During Operations Wetback 1 and 2, American citizens were rounded up as well as the illegal immigrants/foreign workers and deported to Mexico for “looking too Mexican,” and I’ve heard of at least one or two border towns that have done the same thing in the past 10 years (and crashed their economies doing it). I don’t expect Wetback 3 to go any differently other than probably targeting more minority communities besides Latinos.
And what do you expect people to do other than make exasperated “I told you this would happen” comments? It’s not like making comments on Lemmy will do anything when the dictator hasn’t even entered office yet and the only thing we can generally do anyways is whine to those in office to actually do something. There’s donating to various groups put in place to help minority communities, but that also has nothing to do with commenting on Lemmy.
We can acknowledge that Harris and the DNC really botched this election and discuss ways to makes changes going forward instead of pointing fingers at voters we want to vote on our side.
But I do hear you. It’s funny how serious we take ourselves here, armchair politicians who have all the solutions. It’s important to remember that it’s ok for us to be wrong about some things and laugh at ourselves. And to take a deep breath, and work towards solutions instead of berating people and pointing fingers. Point to Harris and the DNC. They lost this election and did everything in their power to do so.
They absolutely did. I saw somebody say how the demographic of the Democratic Party has fundamentally changed, and I think there’s some real truth to that.
This should’ve been an easy win, but the DNC didn’t campaign on the things that voters are worried about. They seem completely out of touch with their own base.
Citizens United
Dems have forgotten that their base has different opinions than their donors.
Republicans never cared.
I live in a very white area and I’m not white. I’m telling people close to me I’m in fight or flight constantly. They tell me states or the supreme Court (wtf) will block trump, or I’m not an immigrant so I don’t have to worry, or I’m somehow safer being surrounded by white people even though I stick out like a sore thumb. They feel safe and have bullshit hope and belief and can somehow forget how entirely subjugated black people have been through the entire hisory of America. I’m so fucking tired I don’t even care some days. Can’t wait to be asked what I’m thankful for this holiday.
I’m worried they’re going to start raiding schools and daycares as well in order to force parents to turn themselves in or just to be malicious. A lot of children are going to be separated from their parents.
That would be right in line with their normal behavior. Seeing how many children they kidnapped in the previous Trump administration.
They made “migrating” a crime, so, yeah, leopards…face…
Undocumented people aren’t voting so…
Yeah, they also don’t know or influence any voters. Not at all.
“A lot of Latinos, those who can vote, did so because they think he [Trump] can improve the economy. That would be very good for us too,” said Carlos, an undocumented Mexican who lives in New York City.
So long, Carlos.
I’m still trying to understand this belief that he is good for the economy. He’s a failed business man who bankrupted a casino. His successful businesses are all grifts and money laundering. To say nothing of how our economy tanked after 4 years of his failed trade wars and 2+2=7 tax plan.
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Carlos can’t vote, but a majority of both Latino men and Latino women voted for Kamala.
The only majority that voted for Trump is white people.
“A lot of Latinos, those who can vote, did so because they think he [Trump] can improve the economy.”
I think you missed this part.
That’s what I was responding to. Carlos is explaining why more Latino voters voted for Trump than last election cycles. A majority of both Latino men and women voted for Harris though.
Trump was talking about the economy while Harris was busy pivoting to the right and embracing dick Cheney and her CEO’s
Harris lost more voters from this pivot than she gained from trying to cozy up to literal republicans.
Yes, I assume Trump was lying about how he will help people by fixing the economy, but at least he was lying about the issues that these voters had at the top of their list of priorities. Harris wouldn’t even lie to address any issues her base cares about.
“We want our polticans to be honest!”
Democrats: “fine… but you wont like the truth”
I do think democrats and the left in general do hold their reps to a higher standard. It’s a good thing…… but lol
Edit: this is funny because Harris was actually being 1000% more honest by embracing dick Cheney and the corporate ceos and Israel.
Edit: 100,000
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In my opinion? No, but I don’t think people pay as much attention to news and politics as I do.
Most people are just trying to live their lives. Like 2/3 Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. They don’t have time to read news either that or they’ve been lied to for so long they don’t give a 💩.
I’m just saying, at least Trump was talking about the number one issue these voters cared about, while Kamala was saying she couldn’t think of a single thing she would have done differently than Biden. She pivoted to the right and they kept walz in the basement playing video games. She embraced corporate ceos and dick Cheney. She wouldn’t even lie to us about ending the genocide.
I was willing to vote for Harris if she even lied about ending support for Israel and the genocide, but she wouldn’t even do that.
Thankfully I live in a blue state and I was able to avoid having to vote for her. I would have if there were any chance she would have lost my state.
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Nah. Your flawed presumption here is that we live in a world where everyone tells the truth.
Trump was talking about issues that voters care about.
Harris was bragging about how she’s supported by dozens of CEO’s, and how the Cheney family and mitt Romney endorse her. Trump pivoted, Harris committed to the donors.
Neither budged on Israel.
Kamala pivoted towards donor class in the final weeks, Trump pivoted talking about canned beans and how everything is more expensive.
Most people live paycheck to paycheck, they don’t understand what Biden administration was doing to help the economy, they just know it sucks, and dems keep asking for everyone to vote for the lesser of two evils.
How many people lost access to the child tax credit during his administration. Where is the footage of him calling out members of congress who allowed this to happen?
Part of the disconnect is that most Americans have been removed from the stock market.
The economy is a whole lot of bullshit when you live in a bush on fifth avenue and Trump is walking into the middle of the street with a gun. (I’m suggesting that I am the bum Trump could kill on fifth avenue according to his quote or whatever)
I think people are sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck, I also remember that a lot of kids weren’t paying attention in school.
What I’m saying is that I think so many US citizens who are elligible to vote are disillusioned with the politicians always following the donor class and letting us all down that people in general will vote for a leader who speaks well and makes vague promises, as we learned with Obama.
Now though we are closer to that one movie where the man and woman are in a time capsule and they water the crops with Gatorade lol.
Now you just have to make vague promises you don’t have to even be able to speak well. Look at gw jr
Let’s just agree that it’s the ones who voted for Trump that are the problem, not anyone else. I don’t care what ethnicity someone is, but it really stretches my compassion to have sympathy with any Trump voters that suffer predictable results.
Kamala told us she was allies with Dick Cheney while we are in the middle of supporting a genocide.
No. I do not support Harris. This loss is hers.
If you do not have sympathy for working families then you are not in my party.
I see that as two different categories. If I have to choose, then yeah, I blame Kamala. It’s ultimately the politician’s job to reach people. Kamala failed spectacularly, with the help of the party establishment and corrupt consultants.
What I said is that it stretches my compassion to have sympathy for Trump voters. The Republican brand is all about othering and blaming the powerless. Every Trump voter with two braincells was more than happy to see some other group suffer, assuming they themselves would be spared. Sure, I still have some level of compassion, but not a shred of respect.
Okay, fine!
How can anyone listen to Trump’s racist rants about shit hole countries and walk away thinking “he doesn’t mean me”? He absolutely means you. There’s about to be a whole lot of faces meeting some very hungry leopards.
There’s about to be a whole lot of faces meeting some very hungry leopards.
This is sadly, very true, and i just wish there weren’t so many innocents about to face consequences they don’t deserve.
What part of “mass deportations” do people not understand? Trump told us what he’s going to do. His cabinet pick told us what he’s going to do. They’re going to do it.
Yeah, but all they heard were campaign ads. And what little news they did hear either is actually propaganda that came from Fox News or their local news that’s actually part of Sinclair.
That combined with the shenanigans of social media the last few years, yep, low information voters only wind up hearing the lies they were meant to hear.
“The system is running as intended! Huzzah!”
To trump, every immigrant is a criminal.
Saying “the legal ones are welcome” is a smokescreen.
Except his wife, I’m sure. She’s one of the “good ones”.
Don’t forget about first lady elonia
Who did you think I meant?
Lmao touché
“The legal ones are welcome” is the “there will be exceptions for rape and incest” of anti-immigration rhetoric. It was always a lie meant to placate those with a few remaining shreds of a conscience.
Nah he is telling the truth, he will simply change the law to make most immigrants illegal.
There’s only 11 million undocumented immigrants in the united states. The Trump Administration has pledged to deport 20 million. Which means they are going to be expelling American citizens from their home as well. It’s not just going to be criminals. It’s going to be anyone whose skin tone they don’t like.
people with accents, too. doesn’t matter if you’ve been here for ten years: if you sound different, someone will report you to ICE
Yeah, they’re talking about deporting the children of undocumented immigrants.
Which if they are born in the United States are United States citizens. Which is important to remember. They’re looking to deport people to countries they’ve never been to. Whose languages they don’t speak. It would be one thing if they were talking about young children who still needed their parents. Yes by all means don’t tear families apart is the Trump Administration previously did. But they are talking about the adult children as well. So it’s particularly extra despicable.
I don’t know why they even expect countries to cooperate with that shit. Why should Venezuela accept US citizens being deported into the country?
Because authoritarian regimes whether they are capitalist or leninist Etc don’t ask. The people just show up there if they’re lucky or in a mass grave if they’re not. They’re not asking Venezuela or any other country for permission to send people there. Honestly a lot of the time they just dump them in Mexico and let them be their problem. After all xenophobia isn’t a responsible or rational response.
Mexico still needs to cooperate on some level to allow border agents to cross the border and dump ex-citizens.
Or I guess the US could just keep them in camps.
Ummmmm Conservatives already see them as criminals because they are here “illegal”. By default all undocumented migrants are criminals.
Trump also said he’d aggressively deport and sort through the mistakes later. He’s going to deport legal immigrants too, and I very much doubt they’ll let them back in without an extensive legal battle. Which will never move forward because he’ll intentionally starve the court system (like congress already did at his order) so that realistically, they will never get through the system.
Great fucking job giving Nazis free reign, you stupid, stupid, evil fuckers. You had a choice to fight nazis when it was easy. Just a vote. But you chose nazis, one way or another.
Ohhhhh I agree with you for the most part. But the last part?! Who exactly are you referring to as you? If you are chastising Democratic leadership 100% Anyone else other than literally Nazie’s (aka Trump, JD, the majority of RNC members and leaders, and some of their voters), shouldn’t be blamed.
Obviously, this statement was not targeting you specifically. “You” is targeted towards Trump voters and non-voters.
We knew what was on the ballot. I don’t care that the DNC could have done better. When the choice is “meh” vs literal Nazis, you’re a damn nazi if you didn’t vote directly against them.
I’m fucking done mincing words after voters gave them the House, Senate, POTUS, and all the god damn courts.
First off, before I continue. I voted blue.
But it’s naive to not see voting as transactional. Even more so when major issues face America and humanity, has tested and proven solutions.
For example, Healthcare. The solution to America’s Healthcare crisis is Universal health care. With the middle ground between Universal and fully private is the public option. Neither party would even entertain the notion of a public opinion. The Democratic party could have secured millions of votes if they added public option or universal to their platform. They knew this. All the polling said those were overwhelming popular positions to have. It’s poor leadership and poor advising that kept Harris from having that.
Several polls and Arab, Palestinian, and liberal organizations told the party, that not having a concrete plan to save Palestinian lives would cost Harris millions of votes. It’s poor leadership and advising to not have Palestinian sovereignty and return to post ww2 boarders as part of the campaign. It’s not like Christian evangelicals and zionest were going to vote blue anyways? So why not appeal to your base and a large voting demographic?
I can go on with several other progressive topics. (education, military spending, justice reform, foreign policy, wealth redistribution, climate, money on politics, ect.) So many progressive solutions to very real problems were never addressed or openly opposed by Democrats. The only downside to taking up those causes would have been money from top donors.
Voting is inherently transactional and will always be that way. For “my” vote your platform must have zxy and you must try to get as close to xyz as possible. If you don’t have xyz why should I vote for you? You don’t care about my issues and values, why should I care about yours. It’s the world we live in. Either the democrats take up a full progressive agenda or they’ll continue to lose in the most critical time in human history.
If you don’t have xyz why should I vote for you?
because in an effectively two party system where neither party has xyz you should definitely vote for the party that also aren’t nazi’s ?
The degree of closeness to your ideal of progressive policies doesn’t mean shit when the choice is nazi’s vs not nazi’s.
Unless you are arguing that those weren’t the choices available here ?
Yes everyone understands all that. But are you saying we people that vote blue should keep trying the same failing tactics?
If our strategies (manly from leadership and keyboard warriors) keeps failing against literal Nazies, shouldn’t we change tactics?!
What other options do we have!? Keep openly ignoring solutions that the majority of Americans want? Or go crying about the none voters that feel the is no party representing them?
You don’t like it but look around!
Seriously, what why do you think the none nazi party can get more votes? Times running out and we are losing! Either come up with another answer or keep saying things that obviously lost us an election to Nazies.
Support Universal health care or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support a 2 state solution in Palestine or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support redistribution of wealth or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support the removal of money in politics or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support justice system reform or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
If you expect a different result with what we’ve been doing than we truly are doomed. What’s the definition of insanity again?
Yes everyone understands all that. But are you saying we people that vote blue should keep trying the same failing tactics?
No, but if your tactic changes haven’t been implemented by the time voting comes around and the choice remains “nazi’s vs not nazi’s” then you should be voting “not nazi’s”.
“The Dems continue to fuck up repeatedly, so i can understand why people chose nazi this time” isn’t a tenable argument.
I’m not disagreeing with your disappointment in, well, everything.
I’m disagreeing with this part of your previous reply
Anyone else other than literally Nazie’s (aka Trump, JD, the majority of RNC members and leaders, and some of their voters), shouldn’t be blamed.
If a person understands that the choice is nazi vs not nazi and then actively chooses to not vote, they are tacitly choosing nazi.
“If i vote for the not-nazi’s, they won’t understand how disappointed in them i am” is not a good argument.
“Their policies don’t align with what i want” is not a good argument
“They don’t represent my values” is not a good argument
There is no good beginning half to the sentence “< INSERT REASON HERE >, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”
Except maybe, “I genuinely believe the alternative is worse, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”.
Even then i’d probably disagree, but it would be a substantive argument.
“A lot of Latinos, those who can vote, did so because they think he [Trump] can improve the economy. That would be very good for us too,” said Carlos, an undocumented Mexican who lives in New York City.
Oh Carlos, mi dulce niño del verano …
imagine being that gullible
He will have a rude awakening, more like the law being rammed on his anus along with an one way ticket
Do they not realize that he and his core audience believe the greatest crime a person can commit is not be born white?
I know y’all want to make this a stupid voters leopards ate my balls post but these are undocumented people. They can not vote and had no say in the election.
Remember the old maxim: “no one hates new immigrants more than old immigrants”… Their fellow legalized immigrants supported this outcome as well
100%. My wife’s family ALL came illegally. I think it’s like 7-10 people, the last one got naturalized like 4 years ago. All but a couple voted for trump and their stance on it is “oh well we got lucky that’s just how it is. They need to come legally”
I had no words after that.
I’m sorry, my “give a fuck” stopped working just after the election results came in.
Trump promised to deport illegals and even “denaturalize” certain citizens. He wants to deport 20 million illegal immagrants separate family and put the in camps while awaiting deportation. None of this was a secret, they fucking bragged about it.
Trump gained 14 points nationally with Hispanics. I hope he goes balls to the fucking wall and drops the hammer. May the people get exactly what they voted for.
Meanwhile, I’m going to do the best to make sure me and mine are taken care of. Stock up on toilet paper, N95 masks, freeze dried food and bullets. It’s gonna be lit!🔥
The only difference between you and a Republican is your rhetoric then.
Go fuck yourself. I cannot imagine gleefully watching people be put in camps and feeling fucking smug about it. I’m sure there were plenty of Germans like you.
No u
Always has been
“Why didn’t literally everyone tell me that the racist genocidal maniac was a racist genocidal maniac?”
INCLUDING the racist, genocidal maniac?!?1?
