So they know the problem, pay increase isn’t worth the bullshit surrounding the promotion, and they know the fix.
Will they create more stable schedules or bump the pay to make it worth their captain’s time?
Fuck no. Let’s just cancel a bunch of flights because no one wants to work
And then removed about it publicly to try and create pressure on the pilots. Sorry UA, the class warfare stuff is out of the bag, I’m with the pilots
Unless you think the airline can just eat the cost of raises, I’m not so sure it’s a simple case of class warfare. Airlines operate on very thin margins, so any increase in costs would have to lead to increased prices for customers.
Airlines make record profits every year, and are run on razor thin margins. The wildest thing is that the flights themselves are a loss leader for the insanely profitable travel points scam they’ve been running since the 60s.
Stop extracting 80% of the profits for the investment class from the tourism industry and paying the pilots triple their current wages would be simple.
Never believe a corporation when they complain about labor costs. It’s always a lie
Stop extracting 80% of the profits for the investment class from the tourism industry and paying the pilots triple their current wages would be simple.
not that simple. stop extracting profits, then no one wants ownership of the company anymore.
I’m sure the employees do.
so you’re jumping from a relatively minor quirk in labor staffing to a socialist takeover of a multibillion dollar business. be realistic, it ain’t happening.
Other than employees already run the business.
Stop carrying water for millionaires.
But how will they stay rich?
i’m not carrying water for millionaires, just being realistic about the capitalist world we live in.
If everyone “stays realistic” about the way the world is then the reality is the world stays the way it is. If enough people expect the unrealistic outcome then maybe it could be real.
firstly, you don’t have “enough” socialists to make that kind of change, and secondly if you’re stuck in an idealist mindset then you may miss on good solutions just because they aren’t perfect in your opinion.
You obviously didn’t read the article as creating more stable schedules is exactly what they’re doing.
Is it enough, probably not. But let’s not make up lies.
As a pilot the problem with upgrading early is seniority dictates QOL. A junior captain needs to work a junior base, fly a junior plane, and get whatever crappy trips are left in the schedule. That means that a senior First Officer would have to move or commute to a new city until they build enough seniority to go back to where they want to live all while working the worst schedule, or even worse sitting on reserve. Absolutely not worth the pay bump when you can wait a little longer and not have to deal with all that.
Have you done the mental math about where the pay would make it worth your while?
Hard to say, upgrade means going to a junior base which are almost universally high COL areas and you’d need to either move there or rent a crash pad for several months to several years until you can go back.
In my case, I’m lucky enough to have 0 ex-wives and no kids to put through college so I’m in a comfortable position money wise. It would take a pretty big chunk of money for me to take the hastle to upgrade until I could hold my base.
It sounds like they need to figure out how to merge the two lists to give junior captains some time not fully on call. Maybe allow senior first officers to be standby captains one week out of the month to ease them into the role.
Or just increase pay. Supply and demand.
The senior first officers are noting QoL issues as the major reason they are not choosing to be junior captains. If a 40% increase in salary isn’t enough to get people to make the jump, maybe the solution is to change the quality of life for junior captains.
It might also be cheaper for the airline to make the cutoff more flexible in a way that is acceptable to the pilots’ union.
That clearly didn’t work. A 40 percent increase is plenty, but it seems people don’t want their jobs to dictate their personal lives. Which is fair, I guess.
They need to change the expectations tha t come with the junior captain’s seat. Or force senior captains to be a bit more lenient, too.
The alternative is having no captains anymore, soon.
Obviously a 40% increase was not plenty, or this wouldn’t be a problem. For example, I wouldn’t take a 40% pay increase to be constantly on call. A 200% increase, yes I would do that. So there is a number for me, I’m just not sure exactly what it is.
There will always be people who refuse at any price, but you don’t need to convince everyone. You just need enough captains to keep scheduled flights from being cancelled. There’s a number that gets you there, and the only thin we know for sure is that it’s more than 40%.
Fwiw I’m not disagreeing with your first point. Reducing the demand on captains could also help.
If we’re going to live in a supply and demand economy that works it needs to apply to both labor and goods. I’m all here for this.
It’s a regulated position, as in they would have to be fully qualified as a captain before being able to operate as such in any capacity whatsoever. This sort of proposed solution would not really work.
It is a regulated position, but it sounds like the issue is that United can’t get first officer pilots who are otherwise qualified to be captain to get that certification.
I doubt there is a rule stating that a qualified captain can’t fly as a first officer.
As to the first part, yes, they aren’t taking the position. It’s due to the way seniority works in the industry. While they may have a good schedule as a first officer, captains are generally more senior, so should they take the upgrade, they end up holding a much worse schedule than before. Normally the way to make up for that is a much higher pay rate. But it comes down to what each individual wants in their career.
As to the second, they could definitely keep people dual-seat qualified, but it would introduce an insane amount of complexities as well. Each seat would need a full qualification course, they have requirements for annual training that would increase, and anyone being told to fly as a first officer would not do it for less than their captain pay rates (generally due to contractual reasons). There ends up being way more to it than most people realize.
And the answer to your first paragraph is to give them the good schedule of first officer for three weeks of the month and the bad schedule of captain for one week. Pilots may be willing to tolerate a crappy schedule for part of their month instead of the whole month.
And the qualifications of being a captain flow from the experience of being a first officer on an aircraft. In order to be a captain on a flight, you need to qualify to be a first officer. So, it isn’t like United has to pay for maintaining two separate certifications, just the more onerous one. And you make the dual flight role optional. You let pilots decide if they want to fly in a captain role at captain pay all the time or if they are willing to sacrifice pay for seniority on a schedule for a majority of the month. Let the union vote on it as an option.
That is 100% not correct. I’ve held both roles at a US carrier, it’s not nearly as simple as you say to keep people dual qualified. Which I why I mentioned this seeming like a good idea at surface level, but it falls apart when you look at everything the pilots and company have to deal with to do it.
And most unions have been quite opposed to tactics like this in the past, as management has used to it abuse right-seat qualified captains even more (by making them fly as FOs on trips that need it) in the past.
What needs to be done to keep a captain qualified as a first officer? What is the legal difference between the two that requires two different qualifications?
And I understand that the union would want to protect captains from being demoted on flights, which is why the airline and the union would need to negotiate on this program. However, you still have an absolute shortage of qualified captains and this can be a way to address it. Why not at least try?
World News.
