Edit: liberal and fascist brigade has come with the downvotes again

  • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmygrad.mlOP
    43·
    3 years ago

    In my opinion, a flawed democracy is still a better system for its people than no democracy at all. If you can’t even share a contrarian opinion without being silenced, how can you hope to change anything? In Russia I wouldn’t even be allowed to be having this debate with you right now.

    You just made an open, clear admission you do not understand what democracy or dissent or Russia is.

    Democracy is a process, not a governance system. From what I have seen, it does not exist in right wing style systems, and exists best in a socialist system. Why can I say this? Because India has had a 130 year old liberal left party Congress, which has now become entirely irrelevant due to Hindutva fascist party BJP’s rise since 2014. A party that old, irrelevant with 7-8 years of doings. Liberalism lacks safeguards to protect democracy.

    The fact that Russia’s ruble did not become a meme and has become stable within just 1 month of chaos, tells you that something in their system works. Maybe they are using nationalism with actual moral integrity and not how fascists use nationalism, I guess? China is XYZ buzzword in Western media, but the fact that their government works for their people and listens to their people more than anything that happens in India or USA, colossal “democracies”, tells the democracy is clearly a process that is supposed to be followed, and not a label or a system.

    In short, democracy can be adopted and used both in socialist and liberal/centrist governance systems, since it is a feedback loop process involving citizens.

    I care about “the self” and well-being more than lofty ideals for the most part,

    Yeah, that is how not a democracy or collective wellbeing works.

    I’m not entirely familiar on the Indian democracy, but it has come to my attention recently that it has been veering away from democracy in the latest years (to be fair, like nearly every country, we’re facing an authoritarianism epidemic due to democratic backsliding, the first of this century). That is not a symptom of democracy in and of itself but of a “disease” afflicting democratic countries all around the globe.

    Overton window shifting to the right, you mean? It is a political science 101 concept, and what is happening would be very dishonest if explained by merely Overton window shift. It disregards the centuries of Western imperialist dictatorship and makes one think the world has been a neutral, happy place for centuries, which cannot be any further from the truth. It also disregards the morality of involved entities, and simplifies everything into “liberal good far rightie bad” utter brainrot.

    • H4rdStyl3z
      43·
      3 years ago

      Maybe they are using nationalism with actual moral integrity and not how fascists use nationalism

      To me, nationalism is a strictly rightist (perhaps even borderline fascist concept). There’s no real proper way to use nationalism for the good of the people.

      In short, democracy can be adopted and used both in socialist and liberal/centrist governance systems, since it is a feedback loop process involving citizens.

      Which citizens, exactly, are involved in the process of the Russian government?

      Yeah, that is how not a democracy or collective wellbeing works.

      I just said what I personally believe in, not what would be strictly best for a nation. I then try and choose a regime that suits my personal beliefs best, which I can do in the west but I wouldn’t have been able to do had I been born in Russia or China or some other dictatorship (yes, also fascist ones such as the ones in Central America which were installed through US interference in the Cold War).

      It disregards the centuries of Western imperialist dictatorship and makes one think the world has been a neutral, happy place for centuries, which cannot be any further from the truth.

      I agree, but the west of today is not the west of a century ago. Not even a century ago, since we had the exact same overton window shift to the right in the 20s and 30s of the 20th century, with the rise of fascism/nazism. And then again with the Cold War, to a lesser extent in Europe but certainly present in other continents.

      But you are right that history is ultimately cyclic and we seem to be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. I just don’t think the right answer is to install a slightly different kind of dictatorship, just to oppose the status quo, per se.