One of the modern mysteries I can’t quite get is people caring so much about paying stuff with cash. Are people out there paying for gas using cash as well? How many people have a car and don’t have a credit card or smartphone? So many questions…
Do you like the idea of all our payments for everything going through a private duopoly who takes a cut of every transaction?
I don’t, so sign me up for the fight for better digital options. In fact I frequently advocate for a BoC-managed alternative to Interac. Even the US with its ridiculously contrived banking system is already working on it (FedNow).
But I don’t see the need to wait for that, we can go cashless AND work on better digital options simultaneously.
Ever had a moment where you needed to go buy groceries but couldn’t pay because the payment system is down nation wide?
Many people did many times and if you don’t have cash on you, well you can’t pay for shit.
A cashless society is not a good thing. And that is especially dumb since a merchant can’t refuse legal tender, but the federal government is refusing legal tender by doing this.
Ever had a moment where you needed to go buy groceries but couldn’t pay because the payment system is down nation wide?
Never. If it did happen, it’s almost certain that I wouldn’t have the cash on me to pay for it anyway 🤷♂️I’d rather not walk around with more than $100 in cash on me.
since a merchant can’t refuse legal tender
Where does that come from? AFAICT there’s no law that requires businesses to accept cash as a form of payment. Not in Canada, at least.
You are right about the fact that businesses are not legally obligated to accept cash. I was wrong on that.
As for e-payment not working, it happened to me at least 3 times since last year, and it fucking sucks.
I don’t like to walk with a lot of cash on me, but if I know that there is a outage of payment systems, I can at least use the cash I keep at home to pay for my basic needs.
More options is good in any case. We are already tracked enough as it is, so I understand people that want to use cash.
One: Using a card means all transactions are tied to my financial history. For better or worse, I don’t want all my personal habits in a ledger somewhere.
Two: Fees. Merchants have to pay fees on credit transactions.
Three: Consolidating financial institutions between a handful of company’s. (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, etc)
Four: Complexity. At least one side of the transaction must setup a system to interact with banks or credit cards. Cash is as simple as counting and handing it over.
Five: Budgets. It’s been shown that people spend less when they use cash. When someone can see the money actually leave and what they have dwindles they are more responsible with their spending.
Six: Tax evasion. Sometimes, if the waiter/waitress is struggling tipping in cash means it’s easier for them not to report that income.
Seven: It makes it much harder to make financial transactions that aren’t “approved.” Whether or not you like it, some people want to be able to buy drugs or something else that isn’t legal. Or even worse, the whims of whatever payment processor they use. A private company shouldn’t get to say who can be a merchant and what they are allowed to sell.
Eight: Gifts. Cash is just a simple, nice gift that Zelle or Venmo can’t replace.
Nine: No chance of overdrafting and getting hit with bullshit fees.
I work in fintech, specifically in the payments industry for a company that has a huge vertical spread. And damn let me tell you, we (along with the big ones like MC, Visa, Amex) just skim the delicious foam off the top of everything… right into the pockets of the exec team who keep doing weekly stupid motivational videos from every corner of the world.
I think governments should start thinking about nationalizing the shit out of this instead of everyone paying these stupid nepomonkeys. I don’t care if I’d be out of a job, I can find something else.
I used to work for a company that converted coin-based parking meters to contactless card payment. And I completely agree.
Payment by card/app saves the companies a ton of money because they don’t have to handle cash — the guy going around is now just a fact checker and the automated systems handle the cash.
Previously, some cash was “lost” at each touch point (human handling the cash) in the chain; now this is replaced by higher fees, and a percentage going to fintech executives directly.
Huh, that’s actually a pretty interesting collection. A few I kind of don’t really think hold any weight but some I haven’t thought about before. Cheers.
Yea. I could go on and on about why I prefer cash a lot of times. Not always, but I always carry a couple hundred bucks on me. I also usually hide $20 or so somewhere in my car. Just in case I need gas and I forgot my wallet or the payment system was down or anything like that. It won’t get me a full tank. But it will get me home.
The odds of getting robbed are slimmer than getting my credit card skimmed. I’ve had credit cards skimmed multiple times in the last few years. Last time I was robbed was over a decade ago, and that’s cause I passed out at a party and someone told my wallet.
One could spend thousands of bucks before getting shut down (and thankfully I have good fraud protection so I didn’t pay) while the other got 50 bucks.
Bartering is also a good one. It’s easier to barter with people at stands or who make their own goods. Most handymen or trades workers will charge you less if you pay in cash. They probably aren’t reporting the income, but they also aren’t having to pay the payment processor 5% of the total. When you make a $5000 repair to your house, that’s $250 just in fees the contractor/handyman has to pay. Cash avoids that.
I happen to prefer not to always have my location tracked by a cell phone company or my transactions recorded by a credit card issuer. The ability to be anonymous is a vital component of freedom. Plus, you can still pay for things in cash if something has wiped out all local network connectivity. And yes, I have been known to pay for gas in cash—not always, but now and again (and an EV doesn’t need gas, anyway, so that question is increasingly irrelevant).
I do not require or expect other people to have the same priorities that I do.
Right… that’s about what I imagine someone fighting against cashless is like. You actually pay for gas in cash and you don’t have a smartphone with Internet.
Kind of ironic that you’re excited about EVs, though.
Kind of ironic that you’re excited about EVs, though.
“Excited” isn’t really the word. It’s more that I acknowledge the inevitable. Even if we ignore the damage done by burning it, the world supply of gasoline is finite, and the extraction and refining process is not only messy, polluting, and making many parts of the world beholden to countries with bad human rights records, but also has chokepoints—a relatively small number of large refineries—that are increasingly at risk as the climate gets worse. Better to get off it before we’re forced to do so one way or the other.
Fair enough. I am in fact looking forward to a future where e-bikes and other electric micro mobility bring the freedom that the oil & gas industries promised and failed to deliver.
How do you imagine elderly people that don’t really understand technology would cope with downloading an app or going to a web site to pay for parking.
How can you not have the empathy to think of people that might struggle with things. So many questions…
How do you imagine elderly people that don’t really understand technology would cope with downloading an app or going to a web site to pay for parking.
Using a card. If they’re able to drive, they’re probably able to carry a card and tap it. Maybe it’s a failure of my imagination but I can’t conceptualize someone being able to drive and park a car and yet this same person can’t use a card.
Edit just to clarify: the article mentions “a smart phone with a credit card to pay for parking” specifically, and I guess it’s my fault for going a bit off topic without a more explicit disclaimer. I don’t think a smart phone should be required for anything. I’m just curious about the anti-cashless movement in general, because a smartphone isn’t the only alternative to cash.
This is just conjecture on my part, but I imagine people are against a completely cashless society as it gives companies and the government more information about us than they deserve.
Do I want the government or credit card companies knowing everything that I spend my money on, where I parked my car etc. people should be allowed to be anonymous if they so choose and paying cash allows this to some extend.
Plus, how am I gonna buy my weed if we go cashless, back to dark web and waiting two weeks for delivery, 😩.
When I decide to visit a park and arrive to find that I can’t pay cash, it’s a problem. Visiting a park is a transient event, there does not need to be ANY permanent relation between myself and the park operator. There is no reason to require trusting some random site with payment details, generating another set of account credentials, and installing some mystery app that wants way too many permissions just to visit a park.
There is no reason to require trusting some random site with payment details, generating another set of account credentials, and installing some mystery app that wants way too many permissions just to visit a park.
But those are all details that pertain to a specific type of digital payment. Like I said in a different comment, sign me up for better digital payment options and increased privacy guarantees. Sticking to cash is not the only way to achieve this.
I mean, there are reasons. But I’m not really advocating for businesses to stop accepting cash, I’m more like curious on why people hold on to having to carry cash so dearly.
Personally I’m not a cash guy, I used a debit card for 99% of transactions. If the machine looks sketchy I’ll use a credit card as there is better financial protection at the cost of privacy. But for transient, time sensitive, interactions, like a park I only visit once a year or a fast food place that I may never come back to, I want them to take cash. If there is a problem with their electronic payment system (their site is broken, their cloud provider is broken, their cloud provider’s ISP is down, …all the way to local network trouble) now I am being denied access to physical thing that does not physically rely on electronic infrastructure.
My angry example above of needing to make an account to visit a park actually happened to me this week for an Ontario Provincial Park. It was extremely frustrating because there were no employees present to take payment that day, only a large sign with a QR code instructing everyone to pay online. Now every person in the line of cars a head of me had to scan the code, make an account, fill in their info, etc. Had there been a machine present to take cash (even if it was exact change only), most people could have scraped the coins out of their cup holder in half the time it took to interact with their phone.
Countries, especially Canada can and will freeze bank accounts as a back channel way to control people that they disagree with. Cash avoids this demonstrated risk and must be preserved as a primary payment method to preserve freedom
One of the modern mysteries I can’t quite get is people caring so much about paying stuff with cash. Are people out there paying for gas using cash as well? How many people have a car and don’t have a credit card or smartphone? So many questions…
Do you like the idea of all our payments for everything going through a private duopoly who takes a cut of every transaction?
We don’t have a digital option that’s open or private.
I don’t, so sign me up for the fight for better digital options. In fact I frequently advocate for a BoC-managed alternative to Interac. Even the US with its ridiculously contrived banking system is already working on it (FedNow).
But I don’t see the need to wait for that, we can go cashless AND work on better digital options simultaneously.
The closest thing we have to a private digital cash that is not crypto is GNU Taler.
https://taler.net/
Ever had a moment where you needed to go buy groceries but couldn’t pay because the payment system is down nation wide?
Many people did many times and if you don’t have cash on you, well you can’t pay for shit.
A cashless society is not a good thing. And that is especially dumb since a merchant can’t refuse legal tender, but the federal government is refusing legal tender by doing this.
Never. If it did happen, it’s almost certain that I wouldn’t have the cash on me to pay for it anyway 🤷♂️I’d rather not walk around with more than $100 in cash on me.
Where does that come from? AFAICT there’s no law that requires businesses to accept cash as a form of payment. Not in Canada, at least.
You are right about the fact that businesses are not legally obligated to accept cash. I was wrong on that.
As for e-payment not working, it happened to me at least 3 times since last year, and it fucking sucks.
I don’t like to walk with a lot of cash on me, but if I know that there is a outage of payment systems, I can at least use the cash I keep at home to pay for my basic needs.
More options is good in any case. We are already tracked enough as it is, so I understand people that want to use cash.
Wow, I see. I would not have estimated that many.
One: Using a card means all transactions are tied to my financial history. For better or worse, I don’t want all my personal habits in a ledger somewhere.
Two: Fees. Merchants have to pay fees on credit transactions.
Three: Consolidating financial institutions between a handful of company’s. (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, etc)
Four: Complexity. At least one side of the transaction must setup a system to interact with banks or credit cards. Cash is as simple as counting and handing it over.
Five: Budgets. It’s been shown that people spend less when they use cash. When someone can see the money actually leave and what they have dwindles they are more responsible with their spending.
Six: Tax evasion. Sometimes, if the waiter/waitress is struggling tipping in cash means it’s easier for them not to report that income.
Seven: It makes it much harder to make financial transactions that aren’t “approved.” Whether or not you like it, some people want to be able to buy drugs or something else that isn’t legal. Or even worse, the whims of whatever payment processor they use. A private company shouldn’t get to say who can be a merchant and what they are allowed to sell.
Eight: Gifts. Cash is just a simple, nice gift that Zelle or Venmo can’t replace.
Nine: No chance of overdrafting and getting hit with bullshit fees.
I work in fintech, specifically in the payments industry for a company that has a huge vertical spread. And damn let me tell you, we (along with the big ones like MC, Visa, Amex) just skim the delicious foam off the top of everything… right into the pockets of the exec team who keep doing weekly stupid motivational videos from every corner of the world.
I think governments should start thinking about nationalizing the shit out of this instead of everyone paying these stupid nepomonkeys. I don’t care if I’d be out of a job, I can find something else.
I used to work for a company that converted coin-based parking meters to contactless card payment. And I completely agree.
Payment by card/app saves the companies a ton of money because they don’t have to handle cash — the guy going around is now just a fact checker and the automated systems handle the cash.
Previously, some cash was “lost” at each touch point (human handling the cash) in the chain; now this is replaced by higher fees, and a percentage going to fintech executives directly.
Oh yea. It’s ridiculous that governments have let financial transactions be a private company thing.
Huh, that’s actually a pretty interesting collection. A few I kind of don’t really think hold any weight but some I haven’t thought about before. Cheers.
Yea. I could go on and on about why I prefer cash a lot of times. Not always, but I always carry a couple hundred bucks on me. I also usually hide $20 or so somewhere in my car. Just in case I need gas and I forgot my wallet or the payment system was down or anything like that. It won’t get me a full tank. But it will get me home.
The odds of getting robbed are slimmer than getting my credit card skimmed. I’ve had credit cards skimmed multiple times in the last few years. Last time I was robbed was over a decade ago, and that’s cause I passed out at a party and someone told my wallet.
One could spend thousands of bucks before getting shut down (and thankfully I have good fraud protection so I didn’t pay) while the other got 50 bucks.
Bartering is also a good one. It’s easier to barter with people at stands or who make their own goods. Most handymen or trades workers will charge you less if you pay in cash. They probably aren’t reporting the income, but they also aren’t having to pay the payment processor 5% of the total. When you make a $5000 repair to your house, that’s $250 just in fees the contractor/handyman has to pay. Cash avoids that.
I happen to prefer not to always have my location tracked by a cell phone company or my transactions recorded by a credit card issuer. The ability to be anonymous is a vital component of freedom. Plus, you can still pay for things in cash if something has wiped out all local network connectivity. And yes, I have been known to pay for gas in cash—not always, but now and again (and an EV doesn’t need gas, anyway, so that question is increasingly irrelevant).
I do not require or expect other people to have the same priorities that I do.
An EV… So a car that’s tracking you? 😂
Also literally every car. Why the hell is my sexual activity in the privacy agreement KIA?
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
Nah, a converted electric milk float. 🤣
Right… that’s about what I imagine someone fighting against cashless is like. You actually pay for gas in cash and you don’t have a smartphone with Internet.
Kind of ironic that you’re excited about EVs, though.
“Excited” isn’t really the word. It’s more that I acknowledge the inevitable. Even if we ignore the damage done by burning it, the world supply of gasoline is finite, and the extraction and refining process is not only messy, polluting, and making many parts of the world beholden to countries with bad human rights records, but also has chokepoints—a relatively small number of large refineries—that are increasingly at risk as the climate gets worse. Better to get off it before we’re forced to do so one way or the other.
Fair enough. I am in fact looking forward to a future where e-bikes and other electric micro mobility bring the freedom that the oil & gas industries promised and failed to deliver.
How do you imagine elderly people that don’t really understand technology would cope with downloading an app or going to a web site to pay for parking.
How can you not have the empathy to think of people that might struggle with things. So many questions…
Using a card. If they’re able to drive, they’re probably able to carry a card and tap it. Maybe it’s a failure of my imagination but I can’t conceptualize someone being able to drive and park a car and yet this same person can’t use a card.
Edit just to clarify: the article mentions “a smart phone with a credit card to pay for parking” specifically, and I guess it’s my fault for going a bit off topic without a more explicit disclaimer. I don’t think a smart phone should be required for anything. I’m just curious about the anti-cashless movement in general, because a smartphone isn’t the only alternative to cash.
This is just conjecture on my part, but I imagine people are against a completely cashless society as it gives companies and the government more information about us than they deserve.
Do I want the government or credit card companies knowing everything that I spend my money on, where I parked my car etc. people should be allowed to be anonymous if they so choose and paying cash allows this to some extend.
Plus, how am I gonna buy my weed if we go cashless, back to dark web and waiting two weeks for delivery, 😩.
When I decide to visit a park and arrive to find that I can’t pay cash, it’s a problem. Visiting a park is a transient event, there does not need to be ANY permanent relation between myself and the park operator. There is no reason to require trusting some random site with payment details, generating another set of account credentials, and installing some mystery app that wants way too many permissions just to visit a park.
But those are all details that pertain to a specific type of digital payment. Like I said in a different comment, sign me up for better digital payment options and increased privacy guarantees. Sticking to cash is not the only way to achieve this.
But cash exists right now. There is no reason to drop support for it.
I mean, there are reasons. But I’m not really advocating for businesses to stop accepting cash, I’m more like curious on why people hold on to having to carry cash so dearly.
Ah, I misunderstood your meaning.
Personally I’m not a cash guy, I used a debit card for 99% of transactions. If the machine looks sketchy I’ll use a credit card as there is better financial protection at the cost of privacy. But for transient, time sensitive, interactions, like a park I only visit once a year or a fast food place that I may never come back to, I want them to take cash. If there is a problem with their electronic payment system (their site is broken, their cloud provider is broken, their cloud provider’s ISP is down, …all the way to local network trouble) now I am being denied access to physical thing that does not physically rely on electronic infrastructure.
My angry example above of needing to make an account to visit a park actually happened to me this week for an Ontario Provincial Park. It was extremely frustrating because there were no employees present to take payment that day, only a large sign with a QR code instructing everyone to pay online. Now every person in the line of cars a head of me had to scan the code, make an account, fill in their info, etc. Had there been a machine present to take cash (even if it was exact change only), most people could have scraped the coins out of their cup holder in half the time it took to interact with their phone.
Countries, especially Canada can and will freeze bank accounts as a back channel way to control people that they disagree with. Cash avoids this demonstrated risk and must be preserved as a primary payment method to preserve freedom
lol indeed cash is very fit for the tinfoil hat crowd
And you are not just a clueless idiot, but an asshat as well.
some might even say a poopyface too