• redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      No, I do not understand the difference and you may have misunderstood my point(s). I’m unsure what you’re saying.

    • 133arc585
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      1 year ago

      It would be helpful if the vast majority of the “good faith” arguments in favor of Chinese policies didn’t so frequently turn out to be from state-funded actors pushing propaganda.

      The ratio of truly state-funded actors to genuine human participation is nowhere near what you’re implying. If you think it is as bad as you say, you should be able to prove that comment. Just because someone holds different opinions than you doesn’t mean they’re being paid to do so (if only that were true!).

      Praise for China interjected seemingly at random, in a superlative nature is a common one.

      Mentioning China where it truly is irrelevant is weird; mentioning China when it is relevant, but just because you don’t think it is, isn’t weird. If a thing is legitimately near the top of a particular ranking, then “superlative” praise of it is not superlative at all; that’s like saying praise for the the #1 gold medal olympian is superlative–it’s not, they’re literally at the top.

      Chinese shills are not as advanced as their Russian counterparts, in that they’re not allowed to criticize their masters and in fact gain points for effusively praising their masters.

      You have a very active imagination. This is a satement about two different countries, so you have twice as much opportunity to find evidence that (at least one side of) what you’re saying is true. Can you provide evidence that this isn’t just your imagination?

      The goal of a China shill is to say that China is superior. The goal of a Russia shill is to say that everyone is equally shit.

      Again, you present this as if it’s obviously true. It’s not.

      If you assume everyone is operating in bad faith and is a paid actor, why participate at all? You’re not saving the world by fighting against an imagined state-funded actor foe. You’re feeding on (imagined) outrage.

      • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        find evidence

        lol

        We’ve been over this

        If a thing is legitimately near the top of a particular ranking, then “superlative” praise of it is not superlative at all

        I’m not going to bother to get a ranking of countries by “technologically advanced infrastructure” (see above point about sealioning). But the point is it doesn’t matter. The point could be made by saying “since China has a technologically advanced infrastructure” or, even more to the point, “since China has an interest in actively guiding its infrastructure”. No one would argue that China is a 3rd world country. But no. It’s not a technologically advanced infrastructure. It’s “one of the most technologically advanced infrastructures in the world”. That’s superlative relative to the topic at hand, and that’s why it’s a red flag. The verbiage is familiar.

        But also, the context. If someone said “Germany has one of the most technologically advanced infrastructures in the world”, well, we could debate that, but I wouldn’t suspect any bad faith. Because there hasn’t been a history of state-motivated actors pushing that agenda on the internet on behalf of Germany.

        • 133arc585
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          1 year ago

          find evidence

          lol

          We’ve been over this

          No, we haven’t. For someone so hellbent on pretending they’re calling out bad-faith arguments, you’re falling in to one now: asking for sources is not always sealioning. If someone is spewing bold claims, sometimes in sequence in an effort to combine them to come to conclusions that are questionable by nature of not having a grounding in fact, without providing evidence, is that not a problem? Seemingly, you’re saying the problem only comes about from someone who responds and asks for a source. Making bold claims should require you to provide evidence; asking for evidence of bold claims is not the problem.

          At this point, I really shouldn’t bother talking to you anymore. You’ve made it very clear you are not actually here in good faith (your version of good faith is playing games, not to have real discussion). I’m offended by your approach, and haven’t been driven to meaningful thought by your comments.

          • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            asking for sources is not always sealioning

            True, but it’s not very relevant to the discussion here. I’m explaining things I’ve personally seen on the internet, not trying to convince you of the same. You’re asking for evidence for something that’s several layers of abstraction from what we’ve been discussing. I can understand your desire for evidence of the bold claims I’ve made, but that’s a lot of effort on my part, especially for this topic where state-level actors have an interest in covering up the pure statistical facts.

            I actually don’t think you have any ill intent in asking, just curiosity and healthy skepticism. It’s a question of effort.

            • Thread is about climate change

            • Redtea suggests we should look at alternate approaches than the typical capitalist

            • I question

            • Redtea cites a book and makes a pro-China statement as part of his thesis

            • I find his motives suspicious due to the statement

            • You question my suspicion

            • I explain my experience

            • You ask for evidence

            We’re several layers deep into this right now. I could come back to it later when I have more energy and am motivated and I could spend some time finding you stuff, but it’s a big ask for me to spend like an hour looking up and compiling stuff for you to give you a snapshot of what I’ve seen on the internet over the past 5-10 years.