• FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    50
    ·
    2 months ago

    Every two years, 99% of voters here in the US choose to put their stamp of approval on capitalism. Then they inexplicably clutch their pearls when capitalists do capitalist things, as if it’s somehow shocking.

    Looks like public pressure brought a positive outcome in this case, so that’s something, but this is the stuff you should consider when voting for the two ruling parties.

    • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      50
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      You are that guy in the comic about a modern person blaming serfs for the persistence of feudalism.

    • OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      35
      ·
      2 months ago

      Hey, look at that. It’s the inevitable consequence of the game theory of first past the post voting. Voting system reform is my #1 issue, and if you actually care about the fact that “99% of voters” are locked into voting for someone they dislike to avert disaster every 4 years, it should be yours as well.

      There is no meaningful future for third parties until and unless this occurs. IRV is a good first step, but Score voting is better. Multimember districts are also important. Getting rid of the electoral college is a no-brainer.

      • Floon
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 months ago

        Requires a constitutional amendment, which, in case it isn’t obvious, will not happen, as it will require the yea votes of states that currently wield outsized power under the current system.

        • LallyLuckFarm@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          2 months ago

          Push for it in your state, first. We’re still in the first few cycles using RCV in Maine (I like STAR better) where folks are learning to love it, but there’s no time like now to get that ball rolling. More people need to experience it to shift the national conversation of “whether we should” to “which should we use”

      • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Thank you for your perspective.

        Voting system reform is my #1 issue

        Respectfully, I don’t think it is. You’ve seen the same history I have and, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, you know how your Democratic vote reinforces that which you say you want to change.

    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      2 months ago

      While agree with the sentiment, electorialism will never end capitalism because of the power imbalance where capitalists will spend all their money if they need to for heavy propaganda campaigns in favour of capitalism.

      Your energy is better spent on small scale organising your workplace, to make sure that you and your coworkers can actually use the only leverage you have through strikes.

    • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      2 months ago

      US voters are never given the chance to vote for non-capitalist candidates. But this year we actually have a socialist in the running which is why I am voting for Claudia de la Cruz this year.

      • DdCno1@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        27
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        In a two-party system, you’re throwing away your vote that could get Harris instead of Trump elected for not even a blip on the radar. This is at best pointless grandstanding.

        Edit: Decided to read a little into her. She’s nothing but a spoiler candidate, meant to syphon voters away from Harris, just like Stein. Cherry on top: Apologia for China and North Korea and funding from China, which alone should motivate any decent human being to avoid her like the plague: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_De_la_Cruz_2024_presidential_campaign#Criticism

        • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          How exactly are you not throwing your vote away voting Harris or Trump, in full knowledge that neither is going to do anything meaningful to help the poor and working class?

            • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              I’m asking a legitimate question here.

              We can look back at the last 40 years, but the last 20 in particular, when Democrats were handed a mandate not once but twice.

              And they’ve used that power to make us poorer, not wealthier.

              So how exactly are you not throwing your vote away voting Harris or Trump, given that we can look at recent history and infer exactly what they’re going to do once elected?

              I could vote Harris, but my eighty year-old parents are still going to have to drive for DoorDash, in the car I lent them, and if they can’t Harris or Trump will gladly allow their monied friends to take everything away from them. You and I both know it, so all of the discussion about ‘throwing your vote away’ just rings very hollow to me. My vote is already worthless, at least as concerns the Federal Government.

              • Vodulas [they/them]@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                15
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                OK, I’ll bite.

                Trump will be worse for marginalized people, trans folks in particular. Harris has a history of supporting LGBTQIA+ rights.

                Trump will be worse for Palestine (and has said as much). Harris has at least entertained a cease fire.

                Trump, despite the lies that he utters, will make every move to implement Project 2025, which will destroy any semblance of democracy. Harris won’t do that.

                I am so sick of the bosthsideism bullshit. Just because they are both bad, does not mean one isn’t dramatically worse. This election is going to be close, and as shitty as it is, the US is a 2 party system. Third parties do not have a chance with the current electoral system.

                If you want that to change, you have start local and work up the chain. Not voting or voting third party is pointless until there is a change in system, and that starts locally.

                • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  If you want that to change, you have start local

                  You’re partly right.

                  The only power we have now is local, unless you’re a billionaire or willing to commit a terrorist act, both of which do not apply to me. You can always do good with your own two hands, but we can look at the last two decades and conclude correctly and definitively that voting for either major party is throwing your vote away, at least if you’re a wage earner.

                  The thing is, fascism’s already here for most. Abortion is criminalized in part of the country and will soon be criminalized in most of it, and it happened with Democrats in power. A vast majority of Americans have to work 2-3 jobs to survive now, and it happened while Democrats were in charge. If you have a major injury or illness, you will be bankrupted, and that remains true no matter who we elect. If you’re a person of color, a police officer can kill you at will and there won’t be any meaningful blowback to the police system, and not only did it happen under Democrats, Joe Biden mocked the defund movement in a SOTU speech.

                  It seems most people want to give credit to Democrats for what they say. I’m giving them credit for what they actually do.

                  • Vodulas [they/them]@beehaw.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    7
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    If you don’t think those things will get substantially worse, and substantially faster under Trump, the you have played yourself

        • Akasazh@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Disagreeing with politics is as old as humans, one can live in a situation one doesn’t philosophically agree with. Voting does hold aspiration.

          • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            That it does.

            We still have to look at historical patterns and acknowledge that what a person claims to vote for is antithetical to what their party of choice is actually going to do.

    • Crikeste@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      2 months ago

      What do you suggest people do then? Protest the vote and take to the streets? Not asking to be a dick, just genuinely curious.

      • rammer@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Work inside all of the political institutions to bring about constitutional change. Abolish electoral college etc.

      • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Vote third party and be public about it.

        Protests are a waste, so taking to the streets doesn’t matter much unless you can gather enough people to create a legitimate violent threat.