In a recent Quinnipiac University national poll, the 2024 presidential race is proving to be extremely close.Former President Donald Trump leads with 48% suppo
To be this dedicated to getting Trump elected is almost impressive. You seem to be putting more effort into getting him elected than the combined effort put in by all the third-party presidential candidates to win themselves.
I mean, look at your favorite du jour, Claudia de la Cruz. Eleven events over the next month (the last month before the election) and eight of them are in California (which is useless to her other than that sweet, sweet fundraising). One event in Oregon, one in Wisconsin, and one in Arizona (where she’s not even on the ballot or registered for write-ins).
Can’t say I agree with your politics or your methods, friend, but to be so committed to a cause is something I guess.
But remember: every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
If you really want to avoid a Trump win, supporting a viable alternative outside the two-party system is the only way to push the conversation forward.
Also, I do really like Claudia de la Cruz, but I’m not voting for her. Thank you!
Yes, in local elections. No, in national elections. Even if everyone dropped the DNC and voted a third party into the Presidential office, third parties don’t just appear as permanent major contenders due to winning one election. Not to mention the congressional support they’d need to pass anything. You sound kinda like me when I was younger, so I really do hope you’re trolling so you can avoid the sudden realization of what exactly you’re suggesting. Splitting the vote is a real thing that can happen if a majority faction schisms into two minority factions. Unless you’re absolutely positive that whatever third party is already going to get more votes than Harris, voting third party is splitting the progressive vote. If you want to establish a third party, go out into your county and campaign for one at a local level. Get a regional voter base and work toward a congressional campaign. Seriously, nobody’s stopping you. I would love to see people doing that. But please don’t pretend this pipe dream of electing a third party straight to the highest office in the land (with no legislative or judicial support) is the answer to the future.
But remember: every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change.
I suspect that’s not true as there do exist folks who may prefer Harris to any of the third parties. Never-trump Republicans, for example.
This differs from the usual argument about voting third party since the additional aspect of voting for a non-viable candidate is not present here - Harris has a real shot at winning.
If you really want to avoid a Trump win, supporting a viable alternative outside the two-party system is the only way to push the conversation forward.
A couple of points in response:
There are multiple ways to push the conversation forward. For example, one can fully back Harris but still push for different policies (such as more support for Gaza, backing single payer healthcare, free college for all, or even a universal basic income).
Pushing the conversation forward is good and all, but it seems like a non-sequitur in terms of avoiding a win by the GOP candidate.
Finally, currently there do not exist any viable alternatives outside the two-party system for the president. (In downstream elections like Senators and House reps and such, we do see independents.) The closest is Socialist and independent Bernie Sanders - he’s not a member of the Democratic party but he caucuses with the Dems and he ran as a primary candidate for the Democratic nomination for President.
This acknowledges the reality that an independent president would have to govern with the cooperation of a coalition of Senators and Reps.
In practical terms I suspect if there ever was an independent president, that person would have to “caucus” with either the Dems or the GOP of Congress.
By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
I’d give credit to this. For example, some voters who identify as Muslim in some battleground states are preferring to vote for Stein over Harris and giving the reason of policy differences over Gaza and Palestine. If we sideline voices, this is how we lose votes.
By instead listening, we have a better chance to win them over, and thus turn the tide.
Also, I do really like Claudia de la Cruz, but I’m not voting for her. Thank you!
Oh right, you’re supporting Fruit - who has ONE event in the next month. https://themilitant.com/events/ Sorry, you just spend all your time talking about literally anyone else, I guess it slipped my mind.
And they only have access to 25 out of 538 electors because of how limited their ballot access is. Really backing a dynamic and legitimate campaign there, friend! So brave.
Believe it or not, unlike you I don’t follow people around and interject myself in comment threads ten deep. So happy you have such an active outlet for your…
Oh wait, hmm, that looks pretty sad actually. Not many takers, huh? Latest four posts are all from you over three days and you can’t even manage to get upvoted in your own community. I’d say it was hilarious that you thought that was evidence of something, but now you’ve just made me sad friend.
you can’t even manage to get upvoted in your own community.
You say that as if it would matter to me. Unlike you, I don’t care about upvotes or downotes very much. I think it’s hilarious that people are so quick to downvote, but I don’t really care that much.
And who cares how deep a comment is? If I am reading the comments and find one that I want to respond to, I respond.
I don’t look, nor do i care, where it is in the thread or how many threads deep it is. I find it funny that It’s so important to you though! lol
What “takers” are you referring to? I post articles I find interesting. If they find an audience, cool. If they don’t find an audience, cool. I don’t write them, I just post them, friend. :)
Well, to be fair you did manage to get twelve whole subscribers, so that’s probably already exceeding what SWP will receive in votes in your state. Who knows, with their one whole candidate event next month, you may actually be their most effective outreach. Proud of you bud!
Oops! I made the mistake of reading more again and just realized how …sparse mention of Fruit is there. You actually seem to be a much more effective outreach for “vague socialism vibes”. The important thing is that you’re doing the best that you can, friend!
Well, to be fair you did manage to get twelve whole subscribers, so that’s probably already exceeding what SWP will receive in votes in your state.
Well then you shouldn’t have a problem with me posting then, right? I mean, since our numbers are so low and meaningless, you have nothing to worry about! Right?
sparse mention of Fruit is there.
I’ve mentioned her plenty and I support the party and socialism. Do I have to have her name in every single post I make about socialism?
Since according to you, I post so little about her, then you have nothing to worry about when I post. Right?! I mean she is mentioned so little, and our numbers are so small, shouldn’t have any affect on anything. Right?! :)
You seem to think that mocking me about how small SWP part is that I will somehow be offended. You don’t think I know what our numbers are?! lol As I have said multiple times, I am voting for who most closely aligns with my values. I don’t look at numbers or popularity.
Sure, add those to the list of things you don’t look at. That list is getting pretty long though, isn’t? Does someone need to send you some more paper?
To be this dedicated to getting Trump elected is almost impressive. You seem to be putting more effort into getting him elected than the combined effort put in by all the third-party presidential candidates to win themselves.
I mean, look at your favorite du jour, Claudia de la Cruz. Eleven events over the next month (the last month before the election) and eight of them are in California (which is useless to her other than that sweet, sweet fundraising). One event in Oregon, one in Wisconsin, and one in Arizona (where she’s not even on the ballot or registered for write-ins).
Can’t say I agree with your politics or your methods, friend, but to be so committed to a cause is something I guess.
Thank you!
But remember: every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
If you really want to avoid a Trump win, supporting a viable alternative outside the two-party system is the only way to push the conversation forward.
Also, I do really like Claudia de la Cruz, but I’m not voting for her. Thank you!
Yes, in local elections. No, in national elections. Even if everyone dropped the DNC and voted a third party into the Presidential office, third parties don’t just appear as permanent major contenders due to winning one election. Not to mention the congressional support they’d need to pass anything. You sound kinda like me when I was younger, so I really do hope you’re trolling so you can avoid the sudden realization of what exactly you’re suggesting. Splitting the vote is a real thing that can happen if a majority faction schisms into two minority factions. Unless you’re absolutely positive that whatever third party is already going to get more votes than Harris, voting third party is splitting the progressive vote. If you want to establish a third party, go out into your county and campaign for one at a local level. Get a regional voter base and work toward a congressional campaign. Seriously, nobody’s stopping you. I would love to see people doing that. But please don’t pretend this pipe dream of electing a third party straight to the highest office in the land (with no legislative or judicial support) is the answer to the future.
As I said, I personally believe that supporting a viable alternative outside the two-party system is the only way to push the conversation forward.
Where have these third parties been for the past 4 years?
Do you think they didn’t exist before now?!
I suspect that’s not true as there do exist folks who may prefer Harris to any of the third parties. Never-trump Republicans, for example.
This differs from the usual argument about voting third party since the additional aspect of voting for a non-viable candidate is not present here - Harris has a real shot at winning.
A couple of points in response:
There are multiple ways to push the conversation forward. For example, one can fully back Harris but still push for different policies (such as more support for Gaza, backing single payer healthcare, free college for all, or even a universal basic income).
Pushing the conversation forward is good and all, but it seems like a non-sequitur in terms of avoiding a win by the GOP candidate.
Finally, currently there do not exist any viable alternatives outside the two-party system for the president. (In downstream elections like Senators and House reps and such, we do see independents.) The closest is Socialist and independent Bernie Sanders - he’s not a member of the Democratic party but he caucuses with the Dems and he ran as a primary candidate for the Democratic nomination for President.
This acknowledges the reality that an independent president would have to govern with the cooperation of a coalition of Senators and Reps.
In practical terms I suspect if there ever was an independent president, that person would have to “caucus” with either the Dems or the GOP of Congress.
I’d give credit to this. For example, some voters who identify as Muslim in some battleground states are preferring to vote for Stein over Harris and giving the reason of policy differences over Gaza and Palestine. If we sideline voices, this is how we lose votes.
By instead listening, we have a better chance to win them over, and thus turn the tide.
Oh right, you’re supporting Fruit - who has ONE event in the next month. https://themilitant.com/events/ Sorry, you just spend all your time talking about literally anyone else, I guess it slipped my mind.
And they only have access to 25 out of 538 electors because of how limited their ballot access is. Really backing a dynamic and legitimate campaign there, friend! So brave.
Um… https://lemmy.world/c/swp
I’m voting for the candidate who aligns with my values. And that is not your candidate. :)
I’m proud of who I am voting for.
Believe it or not, unlike you I don’t follow people around and interject myself in comment threads ten deep. So happy you have such an active outlet for your…
Oh wait, hmm, that looks pretty sad actually. Not many takers, huh? Latest four posts are all from you over three days and you can’t even manage to get upvoted in your own community. I’d say it was hilarious that you thought that was evidence of something, but now you’ve just made me sad friend.
You say that as if it would matter to me. Unlike you, I don’t care about upvotes or downotes very much. I think it’s hilarious that people are so quick to downvote, but I don’t really care that much.
And who cares how deep a comment is? If I am reading the comments and find one that I want to respond to, I respond.
I don’t look, nor do i care, where it is in the thread or how many threads deep it is. I find it funny that It’s so important to you though! lol
What “takers” are you referring to? I post articles I find interesting. If they find an audience, cool. If they don’t find an audience, cool. I don’t write them, I just post them, friend. :)
Well, to be fair you did manage to get twelve whole subscribers, so that’s probably already exceeding what SWP will receive in votes in your state. Who knows, with their one whole candidate event next month, you may actually be their most effective outreach. Proud of you bud!
Oops! I made the mistake of reading more again and just realized how …sparse mention of Fruit is there. You actually seem to be a much more effective outreach for “vague socialism vibes”. The important thing is that you’re doing the best that you can, friend!
Well then you shouldn’t have a problem with me posting then, right? I mean, since our numbers are so low and meaningless, you have nothing to worry about! Right?
I’ve mentioned her plenty and I support the party and socialism. Do I have to have her name in every single post I make about socialism?
Since according to you, I post so little about her, then you have nothing to worry about when I post. Right?! I mean she is mentioned so little, and our numbers are so small, shouldn’t have any affect on anything. Right?! :)
You seem to think that mocking me about how small SWP part is that I will somehow be offended. You don’t think I know what our numbers are?! lol As I have said multiple times, I am voting for who most closely aligns with my values. I don’t look at numbers or popularity.
Never have. Never will, friend. :)
Sure, add those to the list of things you don’t look at. That list is getting pretty long though, isn’t? Does someone need to send you some more paper?
Fingers crossed you don’t get hand cramps friend!