The Cage is peak trek
Never accepted Kirk and those after as real trek
You better be referring to the original broadcast recorded to magnetic tape and not the abomination that is the DVD release
What about the option of the original black and white recording of ‘The Cage’ with the colour portions from ‘The Menagerie’ spliced in, as released to videotape in thr 80s?
That was the real Star Trek. Roddenberry even took it to cons in the 70s and 80s to let fans know what he really wanted to put on the air.
Good point. Everything after that is woke critical race theory DEI!
You’re fooling yourself if you don’t want to see the sharp decrease in quality post DS9. The best Trek series of the last 25 years is Orville ffs
Fuckin-A roit, mate!
LOL I had a whole reply typed out before I realized this was sarcasm. A+ example of a red flag.
You’re so threatened by people who like different TV shows than you that you have to pretend their opinions aren’t serious?
I don’t mind the Kelvin films. Karl Urban as Bones makes it all worth while.
They’re just popcorn flicks. Watch or don’t watch and it’s not like the Star Trek Universe is altered in any way. (Also, those movies are better than everything after Wrath of Khan, movie-wise)
Also, those movies are better than everything after Wrath of Khan, movie-wise
boo
I used to think Chris Pine Kirk was better than Shatner. I now kind of feel like Pine’s the best Captain, but SNW Kirk’s the best gentlemanly lady killer kirk.
I’d argue they are better than anything after The Undiscovered Country. But yeah otherwise I agree, 2009 is one of my top trek films, and I’d rather watch it over any of the TNG movies. Sorry, not sorry.
Largely agree, with a couple exceptions: Undiscovered Country and First Contact are good; Into Darkness is bad.
I’ve taken to the term 3rd-wave Trek for the 2010s-present shows to identify the stylistic differences in production compared to shows made in the 80s-90s or 60s.
Each era is molded by the media conventions of it’s time. And there I go reinventing Marshal McLuhan again: “the medium is the message”
Where do you put ENT? I say it feels very different from the not much earlier VOY but not as a wave in its own right. And while we’re at it: TAS
Echoes, like when a wave hits something else and creates some dissonance.
What’s the face for anyone who remembers that by TOS canon, the greek god Apollo is real and just got bored of Earth and fucked off to another planet?
Teal’c.
If it doesn’t have 20+ episode seasons it’s nutrek
NuTrek apparently began in 1973.
So season one of DS9 and voyager?
DS9 Season 1 is 20 episodes? The way I read “20+” is 20 or more…
How many episodes has TAS?
I don’t really like any Trek past DS9 Don’t hate me
This is the good take. Star Trek peaked at DS9 and there’s yet to be a good reason to continue past it.
Biggest red flag in the entire thread. You win.
Ah yes, “my opinion is infallible and I’m righteous for screaming it from the rooftops, but your opposing opinion is ignorant and worthy of dismissal!”
Red flag indeed, friend.
This is so good I literally can’t tell if you’re doing copypasta or not
VOY and ENT are good
Never liked VOY, writing is poor… Not interesting sci-fi like TNG, not a captivating story like DS9…
The Doctor is essentially the only good part. Maybe Seven of Nine, Jery Ryan is a great actress, despite the embarrassing clothing.SNW is good, DIS is whack. PIC essentially crapped all over the past series’ development, killed Hugh, Ro, Icheb, made the Federation grimdark… Monk Worf was cool tho.
Voyager’s writing is inconsistent. There’s some fantastic episodes… and then there’s salamanders.
True, but the feeling is that in general Voyager was hard to watch.
I rewatched TNG and DS9 several times from start to finish and almost skipped no episodes (though in later rewatches of DS9 I’m skipping the alternate universe ones since I can’t bear them). I tried rewatching VOY and I just can’t. Sure I can rewatch some of the awesome episodes from the show, but I can’t watch it from start to finish since I find most episodes to be cringey (even if I like most of the actors and their characters, but something doesn’t work when watching entire episodes).
Unrelated: I watched DIS until it was on Netflix (and deemed it an action TV series that’s got nothing to do with Star Trek) and watched only a few episodes of PIC until it turned into the “fellowship of the ring” with the introduction of a sword wielding elf. Should I squeeze my nose and dive into it again and try to finish it?
I’ll watch SNW as soon as I can. Still haven’t gotten around it
Discovery started off as an action show, then suddenly added 10 minute long unrelated montages in the middle of action scenes. That killed it for me.
TNG I would skip most of Season 1 and probably a decent chunk of Season 2 on a rewatch.
VOY episodes just leave you with nothing. Sure, stuff happened, but… you feel like it doesn’t matter. It’s sad because they had the chance to really make something cool, 5-year-exploration missions pale in comparison to travelling back from the other side of the galaxy.
You can watch the last season of PIC, it’s essentially a noir-action show in a scifi setting, but… WATCH SNW NOW!
Which we abandon and never talk about again. Not even a card on their birthday.
I’m watching Voyager with my kids. Janeway is pretty bad ass given her position as the sole federation representative in the delta sector. We are however using a watchlist and skipping the filler episodes rather than going for the completionist approach.
Janeway has Q powers, she gets into all kinds of shit she has no chance of getting out, and she just… does, somehow. It’s really bad writing… Plus Voyager is ALWAYS getting disabled! WTF, you guys should stay away from encounters, that ship is made of glass… even tho they, again, succeed somehow in the end.
That’s a very correct point of view. Janeway IS cool and the show had such potential, but there are so many wasted opportunities…
As long as you don’t take every available opportunity to steer every single online conversation towards how you don’t like a tv show then we’re cool
“You are allowed to have your opinion so long as you don’t share it”
But they did share it and were cool about it. It’s people who say stuff like “this is shit and people who like it are shit” that need to cool their jets.
Who said you can’t share it? It’s not illegal to be annoying 🤷♂️
“I wish they hadn’t gone and made Star Trek political!”
maybe I’ve consumed more and more scifi over the years to compare to or maybe the later releases of trek have lowered the average in my mind but I can’t help but see trek in general as solidly mid now
I hadn’t watched any Trek in a while and in Picard there was a scene where their ship was hit and started listing like a boat and I was like “that’s not how space works!”, then remembered that’s the thing with Star Trek.
I mean, once your have artificial gravity… why wouldn’t it suck just like normal gravity?
People lurch around the bridge because some photon torpedo rocked the “down is this way” machine.
Oh inside the ship definitely, but outside space doesn’t have a down. If a photon torpedo really hit the front it would push the ship backwards, not to the front and down. But it’s ok, it’s just a bit of fun 🚀
Why would a ship stay level when smacked? Artificial gravity’s not a gyroscope.
solidly mid
What if I say all trek is both NuTrek and OldTrek because accidental time travel
Creative fun in-universe answers are always:
I would say “I’ve got faith of the heart”
Based on a real situation I encountered once: Normal Star Trek Fan: Yeh, I like Seven of Nine.
“Red flag” Star Trek Fan: I like Seven of Nine.
Nu Trek is, to me, just the kelvin shit. The new shows on CBS are legit, especially lower decks.
I mean, technically everything from TNG onwards would be NuTrek and Kelvin-stuff would be NuNuTrek, or rather Re-Trek, since it’s a reboot.
NuTrek started when they did a full visual reboot, including completely changing the look of the Klingons: TMP.
Then it got worse, when they followed that up with a grimdark shoot-em-up that felt nothing like Trek. These people aren’t even fans of the show!
Who wanted a visual reboot of the Klingons?
Discovery had so many problems for me: ship flies on magic mushrooms, her mom basically doesn’t care about her anymore by the end of it - the show-starting plot line, and the Klingons look like sweaty orcs.
What’s wrong with the magic mushrooms? It’s not like Trek was ever hard sci-fi when it came to how the ships fly. For crying out loud, in Voyager they went so fast they were everywhere at once, then Tom Paris and Janeway had salamander babies.
It just felt so cliche, that the crazy discovery they make is that the strange stuff is alive. The writers couldn’t make it sentient because then they’d need to explain why it’s just like the Great Lake but different from the Great Lake. It just exists and Star Fleet happens to be the only ones who know about it.
Who wanted a visual reboot of the Klingons?
Gene Roddenberry, I guess. IMO the guy really fell off when he turned Trek into a saturday morning cartoon show. But yeah, sweaty orc is right, just look at these monstrosities:
lol, I love that you’re conflating the creator having the budget to make the show more in-line with his original vision with someone else making a lousy change for no clear reason. It’s a nice knee-slapper of a comment you have right there. Good luck with it.
TV and movie productions are collaborative efforts undertaken by a huge number of creative people, and I don’t think any of them make their decisions for no reason. The “original creator” of the Klingons was Gene L. Coon, who had nothing to do with their portrayal in TMP.
That footnote points to an uncredited trekplace article from 2004 that itself has no citations. There was never an “original vision" that Klingons have bumpy heads, that was an idea entirely original to TMP.
Anyway, how do we feel about the Star Trek III redesign? In TMP it was one hairless bump that was supposed to represent a spinal column, running all the way from the back over the cranium. TSFS and onward, suddenly it was a flatter, wider set of ridges that was localized only to the forehead, with a full head of hair behind it. For some reason I’m always seeing people act like those are the same design, but to me the differences are glaringly obvious.
completely changing the look of the Klingons
You are talking about the TOS movies/TNG? Never understand the forehead thing either
Yeah, I’m facetiously comparing the 1979 arguments over bumpy headed Klingons to the 2017 arguments over cone headed Klingons. What’s “new” keeps on changing, but the arguments about it stay eerily familiar.
“Nu” does not mean “New”.
It actually does. At least in this context.
It actually does not.
It in fact does. Not sure what it is you think it means.
It in fact does not. Not sure why you think otherwise.
Because that’s the definition and it’s not used to mean anything else.
The prefix “nu-” is an informal term used in British English to indicate a modern or updated version of something. For example, “nu-metal” music is a term that uses the prefix. The word “nu” originated in the 20th century and comes from the word “new”.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/nu
I’d still like to know exactly what it is you thought it meant.
My brother in christ did you even read the post before commenting? This is what it is referencing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal
The people who call it “NuTrek” are not too lazy to type out “new” they are using it pejoratively.
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It’s a massive, massive red flag when someone goes the “Terran Empire/Section 31 did nothing wrong” route.
It’s very common in zone chat on Star Trek Online. Some fascists just hang around Earth Spacedock all day there, posting nonstop fascist screeds, and if they’re ever actually out in their ships, without fail it’s “ISS” prefix with names like “AYN RAND.”
Disclaimer: Yes some people play bad guys in their games, but I don’t think just playing the part involves hours-long rants about why the (slurs here) need to be wiped out in zone chats.
EDIT: I think I’ll add “fervent Discovery apologists, especially ones that stan for space fascists after contrived apology arcs,” if only because of their repeated tendency to feel very smart to the point of undue arrogance about contrived “what if mass murdering dictators… actually good once the protagonist buddies up with them?” bad writing cliches.
Well, section 31 did save the whole alpha quadrant from the Dominion…
If you believe there was no possible way to do that without an unaccountable space CIA, believe what you will.
If you’re not also posting real-life extermination apologia in public zone chats in online games on the side, good enough for me.
Nah genocide isn’t my jam… But yes, I believe the Dominion war wouldn’t have ended without the virus. The Dominion would have just kept sending ships and Jem’Hadar from the Gamma quadrant.
Edit: btw I dislike the way DIS “unshrouded” section 31. It was much cooler in DS9 where we were left to wonder whether it actually existed or not, or it was just Sloane being godlike in his manipulation skills.
Of course, because it’s fiction, and whatever the writer says is the only solution winds up being the necessary solution. That’s why torture provides useful and accurate information and is necessary in “24” and why poisoning an entire planetary population is necessary with no other options presented as possible for the sake of interstellar peace in DS9.
The problem is in carrying that implied (intentional or not) message away from the fiction and holding it as real-life wisdom instead of a work of fiction with its own convenient Thermian Arguments to justify pretty much anything the writer wants to justify.
Every captain gets a little genocide, as a treat.
Discovery bringing Georgiou back in season 2 as a Section 31 agent felt to me like the show was doing this, and is what put me off that show specifically. I really like the majority of modern Trek shows, and even like 2 out of 3 of the Kelvin timeline movies.
Georgiou eventually turned on her S31 superiors, joined the Discovery crew, and tried to make the Mirror Universe better when the Guardian (sort of) gave her the opportunity.
Space Hitler felt kind of bad about some things and made some space friends and promises to make the next Space Reich a little nicer. No need for Space Nuremburg, for real.
So what about any of that screams “the Terran Empire did nothing wrong” to you? Or would you rather keep deflecting?
So what about any of that screams “the Terran Empire did nothing wrong” to you?
I wasn’t talking about you in particular, nor was I making the connection to that character when I was talking about red flags until you forcibly made it for me.
Read again. I was talking about people posting sometimes hours-long screeds in public zone chat channels in an online game about how badly they want to exterminate undesirables, that also happen to almost universally identify with the Terran Empire or Section 31 between such rants.
Because you went off into the weeds to make excuses for a specific character, I did happen to roll my eyes at the “the mass murdering dictator is sorry and that somehow means she is okay now, feeling bad and promising to be nicer rebalances the scales in a way that karmically un-kills everyone she murdered” argument, though it was a different topic and wasn’t even connected to what I was saying about toxic fans (and the actual topic brought up in this thread).
Or would you rather keep deflecting?
Spare me the catty Reddit zingers.
Cool cool, you’re just inserting irrelevant comments into a discussion I was having with someone else.
Truly dazzling.
Are you continuing to believe that your sidetrack fandom-driven defensiveness had much to do with what I was talking about to begin with, even after I answered your still-silly and increasingly-off topic claim that a character feeling bad and promising to do better somehow un-does the atrocities she did before?
I’m not going to congratulate you for your favorite bad writing cliche.
Truly dazzling.
I think they brought her back in an attempt to backpedal the absolute fucking disaster that was season 1. I honestly enjoy Discovery as sci-fi, but when I rewatch Season 1 I can’t shake the feeling they took another IPs pilot and stretched Star Trek over it like a horrible skinsuit.
It had exactly the opposite effect for me. I greatly disliked season 1 of Discovery but thought they wrapped it up well enough at the end of the season that they could move on. Georgiou showing back up in season 2 read to me as them having learned absolutely nothing and doubling down on the disaster rather than backpedaling from it.
I was generous, even patient, with Strange New Worlds and enjoyed it for the most part, if only because it was not Discovery and its tiresome contrarian “what if evil people… adorable scamps? What if everyone is kind of an asshole? What if moral ambiguity makes the audience feel very very smart while justifying whatever the writers want to show without feeling bad about it?”
I like Strange New Worlds. Very much hoping they complicate the Gorn cliffhanger they left the last season off with though.
It was an experience explaining to my wife (who only watched SNW and Lower Decks and The Orville and only knew about TOS from secondhand sources) that Kirk would totally strike a truce with the Gorn… and that’s why some of them were just chilling, having a nice wedding in Lower Decks that Rutherford rudely interrupted.
Yo, if you don’t mind a bit of the Clone Wars getting in your Trek, Prodigy is a fantastic watch, Admiral Janeway is in the running for my favorite Star Fleet officer.
Your wife has watched 3/4 of the good modern Trek series and should watch Prodigy. (and the TNG era Treks)
She lost interest after the first episodes of Prodigy, but I may try again sometime. I heard good things and it’s better to watch new shows together.
It’s very good and only gets better as it goes on. Season 2 was fantastic.
Both panels are acceptable and objectively correct.
