What’s the difference? Genuine question. I frequently see standard male behavior touted as “toxic masculinity” on this platform, so I’m not really sure what you consider manly, but not macho.
Toxic masculinity is generally founded on the idea that the world owes you something because you’re a man. Positive masculinity is a rejection on that. It’s using your strength and intelligence to contribute to yourself, your family, your community, and the world. Knowing when to give and when to take.
Tim Walz is a good example of positive masculinity. He’s manly af. A soldier, a football coach, a hunter, a leader, a father, a husband. He’s used those roles to improve himself and the world around him, he fights against those who hurt him, his family, and community. I’m not arguing he’s perfect or the only example. Being perfect isn’t part of positive masculinity, but he’s a recent example that has gotten a lot of attention.
And what exactly out of those things is considered to be toxic in general or is it more that the extreme forms of those things are considered to be toxic?
You asked for examples of standard male behaviors, not toxic male behaviors.
Edit: oh, you’re asking which of those, people here would consider toxic? Pick one! Put a negative spin on it, and you can probably find that sentiment pretty easily around these parts.
What do you mean by negative spin? You don’t think that for example extreme competitiveness can be negative - or what is the point you are trying to make.
I didn’t say extreme competitiveness. That’s a decent example though. A man will display ordinary competitiveness, and someone will go “oh, that extreme competitiveness is so toxic!”, when there was nothing extreme about the behavior to begin with.
Yes it is. As much as being kind, protective, supportive, abusive, cruel and every other behaviour is. Words and ideas do not define what acting like a man is. Men acting the way they do does. Which is countless of ways.
I didn’t say macho, and you added toxic. Men and women behave differently. It’s natural. We have different chemicals pumping through our systems and driving our decisions. But men who spend more time with women behave more like women. There’s a study right here talking about it.
We have mostly the same chemicals just different concentrations. Also humans in general show wide variability of behavior, it helps to get out there to realize we are all very similar and different at the same time and there is almost no benefit in thinking in gigantic buckets that encompass half of us.
You’re downvoting pretty benign responses, and adding a lot of your own preconceptions to what I’ve said, so I’m going to pass. Have a great day though. Keep-on sending it on the wall!
That’s a very reasonable question which you’re clearly trying to avoid answering. You’re generalizing women.
None of the women I know fit into a specific category . My down votes don’t make what you’re saying valid.
Just so you know, it’s possible I misinterpreted what you said, but it sounds like you’re implying it’s a negative thing. Some of the most masculine blokes I know are actually the most supportive people I know. People fit a spectrum.
You know the hormonal levels of several acquaintances? That’s odd. Just because you know people outside of the normal ranges doesn’t change the fact that among people in the ranges that are considered normal by medical science, men have far higher levels of testosterone than women, and lower levels of estrogen. The fact that outliers exist doesn’t change that proven fact.
There are over 200 years of records and observation.
We can make models of how the average man or woman tends to behave in a given region.
For example. We know that men are a lot more likely to study to become mechanics than women. That’s not a rule that women can’t. But it’s a statistic that they often don’t
Yes, despite the fact that the existence of those rules is heavily contested in modern society. But I wasn’t talking about social expectations, I’m talking about the effects of hormonal balances which are scientifically proven.
Yes, we’ve always known that men who associate more regularly with women than other men, act more like women.
Being less macho isn’t “acting more like a woman”. You can be many without being "macho "
What’s the difference? Genuine question. I frequently see standard male behavior touted as “toxic masculinity” on this platform, so I’m not really sure what you consider manly, but not macho.
Toxic masculinity is generally founded on the idea that the world owes you something because you’re a man. Positive masculinity is a rejection on that. It’s using your strength and intelligence to contribute to yourself, your family, your community, and the world. Knowing when to give and when to take.
Tim Walz is a good example of positive masculinity. He’s manly af. A soldier, a football coach, a hunter, a leader, a father, a husband. He’s used those roles to improve himself and the world around him, he fights against those who hurt him, his family, and community. I’m not arguing he’s perfect or the only example. Being perfect isn’t part of positive masculinity, but he’s a recent example that has gotten a lot of attention.
Genuine question. What is standard male behavior?
Some examples could include competitiveness with other males, being less risk averse than females, and being more analytical than emotional,
And what exactly out of those things is considered to be toxic in general or is it more that the extreme forms of those things are considered to be toxic?
You asked for examples of standard male behaviors, not toxic male behaviors.
Edit: oh, you’re asking which of those, people here would consider toxic? Pick one! Put a negative spin on it, and you can probably find that sentiment pretty easily around these parts.
What do you mean by negative spin? You don’t think that for example extreme competitiveness can be negative - or what is the point you are trying to make.
I didn’t say extreme competitiveness. That’s a decent example though. A man will display ordinary competitiveness, and someone will go “oh, that extreme competitiveness is so toxic!”, when there was nothing extreme about the behavior to begin with.
Ffs.
I operate a rock climbing meetup and hiking meetup and most of my mates are women.
In my experience people who act macho are also the least macho, and they do it because they’re scared or insecure
Acting toxic isn’t acting like a man. It’s just an indicator they never left high school.
When the situation gets bad, it’s often the non macho ones who take control and fix it when hiking.
Also, I’ve met world record mountaineers (including a first time 7 summits guy). They just act normal.
“Acting toxic isn’t acting like a man.”
Yes it is. As much as being kind, protective, supportive, abusive, cruel and every other behaviour is. Words and ideas do not define what acting like a man is. Men acting the way they do does. Which is countless of ways.
I didn’t say macho, and you added toxic. Men and women behave differently. It’s natural. We have different chemicals pumping through our systems and driving our decisions. But men who spend more time with women behave more like women. There’s a study right here talking about it.
We have mostly the same chemicals just different concentrations. Also humans in general show wide variability of behavior, it helps to get out there to realize we are all very similar and different at the same time and there is almost no benefit in thinking in gigantic buckets that encompass half of us.
Define " like women"
You’re downvoting pretty benign responses, and adding a lot of your own preconceptions to what I’ve said, so I’m going to pass. Have a great day though. Keep-on sending it on the wall!
That’s a very reasonable question which you’re clearly trying to avoid answering. You’re generalizing women.
None of the women I know fit into a specific category . My down votes don’t make what you’re saying valid.
Just so you know, it’s possible I misinterpreted what you said, but it sounds like you’re implying it’s a negative thing. Some of the most masculine blokes I know are actually the most supportive people I know. People fit a spectrum.
I know plenty of women with high levels of testosterone in their blood and very little estrogen. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You know the hormonal levels of several acquaintances? That’s odd. Just because you know people outside of the normal ranges doesn’t change the fact that among people in the ranges that are considered normal by medical science, men have far higher levels of testosterone than women, and lower levels of estrogen. The fact that outliers exist doesn’t change that proven fact.
Are there rules for how genders are supposed to act?
There are over 200 years of records and observation.
We can make models of how the average man or woman tends to behave in a given region.
For example. We know that men are a lot more likely to study to become mechanics than women. That’s not a rule that women can’t. But it’s a statistic that they often don’t
What’s the statistics say about which ear is good for an earring?
Depends entierly on the region. Different places have different customs regarding the stereotype for which ear is the “good ear”.
What if I don’t follow the rules, but I’m straight?
I never said it’s a rule. I said it’s a stereotype. I dunno. Someone might assume you’re gay.
Assuming is pretty rude. I need an indicator over my head. Something to let them know.
You could try a printed T shirt. “I’m gay”. Should get the message across
Yes, despite the fact that the existence of those rules is heavily contested in modern society. But I wasn’t talking about social expectations, I’m talking about the effects of hormonal balances which are scientifically proven.
Hormonal balances like %50 female in the dorm?