It’s shocking to me how many people don’t understand that saying “they aren’t the same species as us, so because of that we can treat them with impunity” is analogous to saying “they aren’t the same skin color as us, so because of that we can treat them with impunity”
See, now you’re actually just forcing your worldview on people. They literally are not people, they are not sentient, intelligent, nor do they have language. They are not analagous to people, and you comparing this to racism is a really shitty attempt at ad hominem.
Science disagrees with you here. Most of the animals being used for meat are in fact not just sentient, but also conscious:
Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.
Got me on that point - my primary point is that due to their lesser function, and extremely different species, I find it just fine to consume them given they’re raised properly, and aren’t constantly in pain. Y’know, not in cages, and not exploiting the definition of “grass fed”, or “organic”, or whatever Tyson wants to advertise next that makes rich people feel like they’re the good guys.
Ultimately, once lab meat can be of the same quality and easily accessible/affordable, then I’d consider switching. No reason not to. Until then, it’s the easiest, most accessible, most fulfilling, and healthiest way to get the nutrients we need, and doesn’t weigh on my conscience, nor should it.
Putting aside that this might be difficult to quantify, why do you think it matters? There are some groups of humans who exhibit severely diminished mental capacities compared to the average human (e.g. babies, severely mentally handicapped people, people in a coma, etc.). Would it be okay to eat them? Because I’m fairly confident that for whatever measure to compare cognitive functions you could come up with, we would be able to find at least some humans who perform worse on them than the average pig, for example.
different species
Why does this matter? As a hypothetical thought experiment, do you think it would be morally justified for us to eat aliens who are biologically very different from us but of comparative intelligence (or higher)? Or for them to eat us?
it’s the easiest, most accessible, most fulfilling, and healthiest way
Apart from the “fulfilling”, which is arguably subjective, I don’t think the rest is true. At least I don’t see how not eating meat would be difficult or “inaccessible” in a significant way, and considering the last point studies regularly show that vegetarians and vegans are, on average, slightly healthier than other people if anything (which might be in part just correlation, but it does contradict your claim of meat being the “healthiest” way to get nutrients).
It’s shocking to me how many people don’t understand that saying “they aren’t the same species as us, so because of that we can treat them with impunity” is analogous to saying “they aren’t the same skin color as us, so because of that we can treat them with impunity”
See, now you’re actually just forcing your worldview on people. They literally are not people, they are not sentient, intelligent, nor do they have language. They are not analagous to people, and you comparing this to racism is a really shitty attempt at ad hominem.
Grow up.
Science disagrees with you here. Most of the animals being used for meat are in fact not just sentient, but also conscious:
– From the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness
Got me on that point - my primary point is that due to their lesser function, and extremely different species, I find it just fine to consume them given they’re raised properly, and aren’t constantly in pain. Y’know, not in cages, and not exploiting the definition of “grass fed”, or “organic”, or whatever Tyson wants to advertise next that makes rich people feel like they’re the good guys.
Ultimately, once lab meat can be of the same quality and easily accessible/affordable, then I’d consider switching. No reason not to. Until then, it’s the easiest, most accessible, most fulfilling, and healthiest way to get the nutrients we need, and doesn’t weigh on my conscience, nor should it.
Fuck Tyson though, those bastards can go to hell.
Putting aside that this might be difficult to quantify, why do you think it matters? There are some groups of humans who exhibit severely diminished mental capacities compared to the average human (e.g. babies, severely mentally handicapped people, people in a coma, etc.). Would it be okay to eat them? Because I’m fairly confident that for whatever measure to compare cognitive functions you could come up with, we would be able to find at least some humans who perform worse on them than the average pig, for example.
Why does this matter? As a hypothetical thought experiment, do you think it would be morally justified for us to eat aliens who are biologically very different from us but of comparative intelligence (or higher)? Or for them to eat us?
Apart from the “fulfilling”, which is arguably subjective, I don’t think the rest is true. At least I don’t see how not eating meat would be difficult or “inaccessible” in a significant way, and considering the last point studies regularly show that vegetarians and vegans are, on average, slightly healthier than other people if anything (which might be in part just correlation, but it does contradict your claim of meat being the “healthiest” way to get nutrients).
On this we can definitely agree.
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