• AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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      4 months ago

      Stuff like “gay people are unnatural and should be corrected” and “drag queens/trans people/[insert bogeyman here] are pedophiles coming for our children” and “n***ers oughta be whipped”

      • Manmoth
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        4 months ago

        My point is that it’s a moving target that will be abused. The government should not and thankfully cannot regulate speech based on the grounds of “hate”. Hate is also not illegal. (At least in the US)

        For example, Christians are taught to love the sinner but hate the sin. Homosexuality, drag queens, transgenderism are sins in Christianity. With your new law Christians are now censored because their worldview disagrees with yours.

        Whoever has the right to define that term has immense power and that power will be abused just like the other labels in the meme.

        • AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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          4 months ago

          They aren’t censored for believing those things are sinful. They’re being punished for trying to enforce their views on what a person should be on people who aren’t them. The minute I start having to care about what the Christian sitting next to me thinks is sinful because he might hurt me if I don’t, he loses the right to free speech, you get me?

          • Manmoth
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            4 months ago

            While not pacifistic Christianity is non-violent. If someone claims to be a Christian and beats up a homosexual for “no reason” then they are sinning. This, also, is completely irrelevant to the argument I was making.

            Everyone tries to enforce their views. You, I assume, want to enforce your world view of radical tolerance for [issue here] at the expense of someone elses ability to criticize it. Your neighbor might want to define hate speech as anything that violates Sharia law.

            What we have now (which is no restriction on hate speech) is actually the best policy.

            • AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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              4 months ago

              You, I assume, want to enforce your world view of radical tolerance for [issue here] at the expense of someone elses ability to criticize it

              If that’s how you want to define the opinion that people shouldn’t be thrown in jail for providing abortions or gender affirming care, or that Tucker Carlson shouldn’t be allowed to go on TV and tell his followers that all drag queens are pedophiles, then so be it.

              Sin is whatever. You can believe that all gays are going to go to turbo-hell, you can tell all your facebook friends, you can say you feel pity for us, I don’t care. As long as I’m allowed to live my life however I want, and you don’t come into my face and tell me not to, we’re good. But your right to swing your arms stops at my face. As soon as you start codifying your opinions into law, or advocating for violence against people who hold different beliefs than you live their lives in a way contrary to your religion (which strangely only seems to come from people who self-identify as being on the right), we’re gonna have a problem.

              • Manmoth
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                4 months ago

                This is (mostly) a different point and I’m not going to engage with it. Suffice it to say that hate speech isn’t a slippery slope it’s the bottom of the mountain. If such a policy is ever enacted it will be abused and used to persecute people.

                • AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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                  4 months ago

                  I agree that censorship is evil. I disagree that people being banned from internet forums because of opinions they hold is censorship.

                  • Manmoth
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                    4 months ago

                    You’re just redefining terms. It’s the same thing. If Twitter or Lemmy wants to block those things that’s fine. I would agree that social networks should try to maintain some sense of decency on their platforms. The government shouldn’t be involved though.

    • threeganzi@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      Yeah, fair, definition can be hard. But to give an example that I think is pretty clear cut: people standing outside of a mosque/synagogue/church arguing that those [certain people] deserve to be dead or put in labor camp.

      You could argue that those are just words, and be correct, but for the individuals that are targeted it’s not just words. They know for a fact that those words and ideologies do turn in to actions.

      I think it’s easier to have to position that absolute free speech is the best solution if you are not part of a minority group who is the target of hate speech.