I tried so hard to hear God. When I finally talked to my pastor about my doubts he said that reading the Bible would help. Reading the Bible made me doubt even more.
If I was writing a fanfic sequel to the old testament I would call it the new testament and say that Judas was paid 30 silver.
I could write whatever I want. Most people back then couldn’t read, and these stories had been passed down for generations by word of mouth.
All the animals of the earth can’t fit on a wooden boat. There isn’t enough water to flood the planet. Mankind isn’t descended from two people. You can discredit the bible from early on, unless you just “because magic” it.
If I was writing a fanfic sequel to the old testament I would call it the new testament and say that Judas was paid 30 silver.
It makes me think of how Mormons will point to such connections between the Book of Mormon and the Bible as proof. You’d expect such connections both if it was what the faithful narrative claims it to be or if it was a creation pulled from a hat that was attempting to reference what came before.
The Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam are a thing. Admittedly, they probably lived about 100,000 years apart, but all mankind is descended from these two people.
But you know what I mean. Mankind didn’t start with one man and one woman. Mankind slowly came to be from another species that was similar to mankind, and somewhere in the history we called us humans and our ancestor something else.
That’s not wrong at all, but there is a much more recent Adam and Eve - an actual anatomically modern human woman and man that all of us are descended from (although, again, they probably lived about 100,000 years apart - I.e. they weren’t a couple)
It should also be stressed that I’m not saying that at one point there was only one woman alive or one man alive.
Mitochondrial DNA isn’t like the usual inherited mix of DNA - instead it’s passed down directly from mothers to their children. If they have girls, then it’ll be passed down to their children too. If they only have boys, though, then that mitochondrial DNA has come to a dead end. Basically it’s matrilineal - it passes down the female line.
The same with the Y Chromosome. Fathers pass the Y chromosome to their sons. If they only have daughters, well it’s come to a dead end. It’s patrilineal - it passes down the male line.
DNA analysis shows that all of our mitochondrial DNA is shockingly similar - especially compared to many other animals. Rolling back the clock (by accounting for the tiny random mutations that occur over time) shows that everyone converges to a single person around 155,000 years ago. Before modern humans, as a species, had expanded out of Africa and spread across the world.
Interestingly, especially so if looking for biblical comparisons, the Y-chromosomal Adam can be traced to around 100,000 years earlier than Mitochondrial Eve - so he did appear first.
So, the next question might be, “if anatomically modern humans existed for at least 100,000 years before the Mitochondrial Eve, what happened to all the other mitochondria variants - why did we end up with only one?”
That is simply a numbers game. Compared to many other animals, humans only have relatively few children in their lifetime. This keeps small populations from exploding suddenly, but it also increases the likelihood of only having boys (and stopping that line of Mitochondrial DNA).
You can map it out on a piece of paper:
Get five different coloured pens and a black pen.
Across the top of the page, draw dot in each coloured pen, with a black one beside it. The coloured dots are female, the black ones male). These are the parents.
Now for the kids. Toss a coin twice - heads for a boy (draw a dot in black pen beneath the parents), tails for a girl (draw a dot the same colour as the mum). Do this for all.
Now pair up the offspring and carry on.
You’ll find very quickly, one colour will start to dominate the paper. This represents the Mitochondrial DNA.
I would argue the easiest way to convince someone to become a Christian (or any religion, seriously) would be if some sort of celestial being would appear and claim to be a deity, or an angel or something.
Something that would prove “magic” or rather, “we are so advanced from you that you don’t really have a choice in the matter.”
Here’s the problem with predictions in the Bible. They are all self fulfilling. The old treatment had been around a long time. There were also many many of these “prophets” running around trying to out prophet each other. It’s extremely likely many of them knew all the predictions by heart. Add in a little survivorship bias, and bam you have a religion.
An easily studied recent example is Scientology, a book writer created a new religion on a party bet. It’s now how big?
Yeah, but that falls in the “because magic” category. That water would have to come from somewhere, or the crust of the whole world would have to flatten out so that the existing water would form a thin layer on top.
Well yeah, being the God of all creation probably entails a great deal of magic. But as for explanations, there is reference to a firmament in the sky in Genesis. It’s generally believed by Christians that the firmament was dumped onto the earth during the great flood.
Wasn’t raised Christian, but had a similar experience. But I definitely believed in God, heaven, etc, because they seemed like facts of life. I just thought there must be more to it.
Anyway, precisely because I took these metaphysics seriously and at face value, and because I wanted to know more, I kept digging. And as any seeker of truth knows: if you keep digging at a lie, you will reach the bottom in short order.
I only had to wait long enough for my youthful incredulousness to fall away. What a waste of time… I couldn’t been studying music theory or something…
I clearly remember the moment when I realized that other people (other than weird fundies) were taking it seriously. I’m not sure what I had thought was going on, my best guess is that I thought praying and going to church was just a weird thing we were all supposed to do out of politeness, like not putting our elbows on the table.
I had the same thing when I was younger! In my head, it was like a thing people do just for tradition(or something?) that everyone knows isn’t real, but we play along for fun. Like when you knock on wood or wish on a star. Or when adults talk about what “Santa” brought them (and I don’t mean the people that genuinely believe in that shit). I dunno I had the concept well developed in my head like it was all some sort of metaphor and then my mind was blown when I learnt people actually think jesus was a real life wizard
this exactly describes my childhood view of religion
I tried so hard to hear God. When I finally talked to my pastor about my doubts he said that reading the Bible would help. Reading the Bible made me doubt even more.
i always laughed at the “oh, you’re a nonbeliever? let me throw some bible verses at you” approach
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If I was writing a fanfic sequel to the old testament I would call it the new testament and say that Judas was paid 30 silver.
I could write whatever I want. Most people back then couldn’t read, and these stories had been passed down for generations by word of mouth.
All the animals of the earth can’t fit on a wooden boat. There isn’t enough water to flood the planet. Mankind isn’t descended from two people. You can discredit the bible from early on, unless you just “because magic” it.
It makes me think of how Mormons will point to such connections between the Book of Mormon and the Bible as proof. You’d expect such connections both if it was what the faithful narrative claims it to be or if it was a creation pulled from a hat that was attempting to reference what came before.
Kinda.
The Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam are a thing. Admittedly, they probably lived about 100,000 years apart, but all mankind is descended from these two people.
That’s a big kinda.
But you know what I mean. Mankind didn’t start with one man and one woman. Mankind slowly came to be from another species that was similar to mankind, and somewhere in the history we called us humans and our ancestor something else.
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That’s not wrong at all, but there is a much more recent Adam and Eve - an actual anatomically modern human woman and man that all of us are descended from (although, again, they probably lived about 100,000 years apart - I.e. they weren’t a couple)
It should also be stressed that I’m not saying that at one point there was only one woman alive or one man alive.
Mitochondrial DNA isn’t like the usual inherited mix of DNA - instead it’s passed down directly from mothers to their children. If they have girls, then it’ll be passed down to their children too. If they only have boys, though, then that mitochondrial DNA has come to a dead end. Basically it’s matrilineal - it passes down the female line.
The same with the Y Chromosome. Fathers pass the Y chromosome to their sons. If they only have daughters, well it’s come to a dead end. It’s patrilineal - it passes down the male line.
DNA analysis shows that all of our mitochondrial DNA is shockingly similar - especially compared to many other animals. Rolling back the clock (by accounting for the tiny random mutations that occur over time) shows that everyone converges to a single person around 155,000 years ago. Before modern humans, as a species, had expanded out of Africa and spread across the world.
Interestingly, especially so if looking for biblical comparisons, the Y-chromosomal Adam can be traced to around 100,000 years earlier than Mitochondrial Eve - so he did appear first.
So, the next question might be, “if anatomically modern humans existed for at least 100,000 years before the Mitochondrial Eve, what happened to all the other mitochondria variants - why did we end up with only one?”
That is simply a numbers game. Compared to many other animals, humans only have relatively few children in their lifetime. This keeps small populations from exploding suddenly, but it also increases the likelihood of only having boys (and stopping that line of Mitochondrial DNA).
You can map it out on a piece of paper:
Get five different coloured pens and a black pen.
Across the top of the page, draw dot in each coloured pen, with a black one beside it. The coloured dots are female, the black ones male). These are the parents.
Now for the kids. Toss a coin twice - heads for a boy (draw a dot in black pen beneath the parents), tails for a girl (draw a dot the same colour as the mum). Do this for all.
Now pair up the offspring and carry on.
You’ll find very quickly, one colour will start to dominate the paper. This represents the Mitochondrial DNA.
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I would argue the easiest way to convince someone to become a Christian (or any religion, seriously) would be if some sort of celestial being would appear and claim to be a deity, or an angel or something.
Something that would prove “magic” or rather, “we are so advanced from you that you don’t really have a choice in the matter.”
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Here’s the problem with predictions in the Bible. They are all self fulfilling. The old treatment had been around a long time. There were also many many of these “prophets” running around trying to out prophet each other. It’s extremely likely many of them knew all the predictions by heart. Add in a little survivorship bias, and bam you have a religion.
An easily studied recent example is Scientology, a book writer created a new religion on a party bet. It’s now how big?
I think that a being powerful enough to create the entire universe can handle a little water
Yeah, but that falls in the “because magic” category. That water would have to come from somewhere, or the crust of the whole world would have to flatten out so that the existing water would form a thin layer on top.
Either way, it would be “magic.”
Well yeah, being the God of all creation probably entails a great deal of magic. But as for explanations, there is reference to a firmament in the sky in Genesis. It’s generally believed by Christians that the firmament was dumped onto the earth during the great flood.
regarding the bible, an interesting presentation from a biblical scholar and former believer https://youtu.be/pfheSAcCsrE
Wasn’t raised Christian, but had a similar experience. But I definitely believed in God, heaven, etc, because they seemed like facts of life. I just thought there must be more to it.
Anyway, precisely because I took these metaphysics seriously and at face value, and because I wanted to know more, I kept digging. And as any seeker of truth knows: if you keep digging at a lie, you will reach the bottom in short order.
I only had to wait long enough for my youthful incredulousness to fall away. What a waste of time… I couldn’t been studying music theory or something…
I was agnostic until I’ve read the Bible. That made me an atheist. I was 12.
I clearly remember the moment when I realized that other people (other than weird fundies) were taking it seriously. I’m not sure what I had thought was going on, my best guess is that I thought praying and going to church was just a weird thing we were all supposed to do out of politeness, like not putting our elbows on the table.
I had the same thing when I was younger! In my head, it was like a thing people do just for tradition(or something?) that everyone knows isn’t real, but we play along for fun. Like when you knock on wood or wish on a star. Or when adults talk about what “Santa” brought them (and I don’t mean the people that genuinely believe in that shit). I dunno I had the concept well developed in my head like it was all some sort of metaphor and then my mind was blown when I learnt people actually think jesus was a real life wizard
I remember being confused about how I was supposed to distinguish between my own thoughts and god trying to tell me something 🙃
one of them is you. the other one is also you
Well, it’s interesting to me that the people who claim God spoke them always hear something that they wanted to do anyways.
Came here to write the exact same thing
Same.
Lemmites try not to bring up religion challenge
not exactly sure what you mean, but i’m doing the shit on religion all day every day challenge
why would someone be constantly trying not to bring up religion? what, are we supposed to all just agree to never talk about any religion ever again?