I should have known better, as the whole cowboy genre is terrible as fuck. Westerns (as boomer Americans call the genre) have the slowest dialogue, the corniest patriarchal story-line, and are obviously filled with a heap ton of other problematic bits. Of course, I had to try as the game got great reviews. I thought I’d try it with the Steam summer sale.

Fuckkkkkkkk the long boring ass cut scenes. OMG pls talk faster and have dialogue that’s interesting. The beginning of the game is just 30 minutes of video and riding your horse so slowly through the snow. I thought that my TikTok brain couldn’t stand some old slow game from a bygone era, but I’m checking this shit and it was released in 2018!

If I was some prat who loved the mythology of the “settling of the west”, a game with a white dude on a horse on a mountain would get me hard. Why can’t more games be like Atomic Heart? I wanna defend the land of Stalin and have cut scenes with good dialogue a talking glove that debates theory and a sexy refrigerator that probably wants to murder me.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    26·
    5 months ago

    Does the debtor thing change over the game? I remember that incident early on being what gets him really thinking about who he is. It’s a lot more personal than robbing banks and running cons, and it seems to be his shooting the albatross moment.

    I think his antagonism towards mueller helps highlight Arthur’s hypocrisy in trying to think of himself as some kind of principled robber. Mueller robs people ruthlessly with less blood spilled, while Arthur shoots people left and right, while trying to consider himself noble or at least better.

    Like, I think that’s a theme - they’re all crooks with various levels of pretension about it. Josiah and that card sharp are gentlemen thieves running clever cons. Arthur’s a simple thug. John’s kind of a dumbass brought up in the life. His wife is ujst kind of stuck with it all for lack of alternatives. The younger women have the freedom of a mostly egalitarian comrades at the cost of the violence and uncertainty of their lifestyle. Lenny and Charles get a place where they’re respected and valued they wouldn’t find in white society. Micah’s a stone psychopath who show’s all their pretension’s of better or worse thieves and killers to be empty. And Dutch is the what no theory does to a motherfuckers ideologe who brings all these lost souls together but whose hubris and lack of grounding drives them towards destruction.

    They’re a mish-mash of all kinds of people alienated from mainline society for many different reasonns whose membership in the gang grants them a very precarious and temporary freedom from the violence of the world, at the cost of being predators who feed on the vulnerable people of that world despite whatever pretensions they might have about what they do.

    There’s definitely something there about the cost of freedom being a life of war. You can be free from society, but that inevitably puts you outside of society as a criminal and an outlaw, and severely limits how you can earn your daily bread. You can be free and wild, but you’re gonna die young and die hard. And most people don’t choose that life, but are stuck there by circumstance and the violence of society. And then the “closing of the west” brings the violence and control of the state to the liminal space between the alleged wilderness and the alleged civilization, sort of reflecting how the cops have encroached in to every single moment of our lives.

    • Stolen_Stolen_Valor [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      23·
      5 months ago

      Does the debtor thing change over the game? I remember that incident early on being what gets him really thinking about who he is.

      Major spoilers for RDR2.

      spoiler

      The entirety of the debtor storyline pretty much sums up Arthur’s entire character arc. He loathes working for Muller Strauss in the (first?) collection mission he contracts the illness that eventually wakes him the fuck up. Over the course of the game when you accept missions from Muller, Arthur snipes at him over the nature of his work and grouses about having to be his attack dog. When he finds out he is dying, he starts wrestling with his mortality and with it his morality. This culminates with him giving Muller Strauss the boot from the camp. (Or I think outright killing him? It might be a decision I can’t remember.)

      My biggest criticism of the games writing is it saying “Arthur doing these shakedowns is the thing that literally kills him” It’s a bit too on the nose but overall the writing is great.

    • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      12·
      5 months ago

      Arthur sees himself as a simple thug, and in practice, is a simple thug. But when they’re not robbing he’s actually quite complex, but as OP points out, he hates himself.

      There are several moments in the game where he talks with the women in the gang, and they all compliment him for being thoughtful, intelligent, and handsome compared to the other male members, but he dismisses them and says he doesn’t know anything about anything. He also talks about how much of a bad and ugly person he is in his journals.

      Dutch, his “father,” and some of the other members such as Micah and Bill see Arthur as the enforcer and nothing more. They never ask him about his thoughts on plans or life and in fact tell him to shut up and shoot, so Arthur just goes along because father knows best. In addition to everything else mentioned in these threads, Arthur also has low self esteem. He’s aware of the harm he brings, but doesn’t believe he has any good in himself until he gives up his life for the gang.