Compiling this data was not as hard as I expected, let’s go through the data and the shiny graphs!
Age of Beeple
Most are above 24! Seems we got an older average age compared to a lot of social media. It would be interesting to see how many came here with experiences from independent forums before Reddit.
Where Beeple reside
This one’s a big graph. Though we can notice most people are from the US. Would be nice to see more countries represented though a big part of it likely has to do with language. (You will need to open the big graph in another tab, it’s too big to show properly.)
Gender identity of Beeple
So, as expected, mostly men. However, less than expected which is nice to see. There should be outreach to at least equalize this.
Sexual orientation of Beeple
This is kinda surprising. It seems we managed to get a lot more LGBTQ+ people than expected considering most of you all come from Reddit - so this is nice to see. This is most likely because of our focus on a safe space.
Whiteness of Beeple
As expected, mostly white which is unfortunate. I think there’s outreach to be done in that regard as well.
Neurodivergence of Beeple
We seem to have a really surprising amount of neurodivergent people! Definitely nice to see.
Beeple with disabilities
I… have no idea how to interpret this data so I’ll just say, shiny graph.
Beeple’s awareness of the Fediverse
Most knew about the fediverse but still a good 20% had not heard about it so glad to see you all managed to find your way here!
How Beeple have been dealing with Beehaw
It seems most people feel relatively confident in their ability to use Beehaw and most people seem to enjoy it. That makes me really happy to see. Feels rewarding, feels good.
Conclusion
I wanna thank everyone for the feedback about the survey and its questions - we’ll do better next time! I’m glad we did this survey because it shows the areas to work on in terms of outreach! Thank you all for your participation!
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Love seeing the results from the survey, and also love the word “beeple.”
Beeple is also an amazing 3d digital artist
What is ‘white’ exactly and why is it unfortunate?
Where I am from, we don’t make these distinctions on the color of a person. That and the fact that unless we are quantifying somehow the ‘shade’ of the skin color it’s impossible to make any serious category.
I’ve always thought that the way americans divide people by color is really dumb and very antiquated, even bordering immorality.
I wouldn’t bring that for future statistics. I don’t understand why race is important in a medium where we can’t see each others.
I’m white, and I just took that to mean they’d like to see more diversity. As in, it’s not unfortunate that members are white so much as unfortunate they haven’t attracted more diverse representation (if I’m right, I do think it could have been worded better).
And to be clear, in contexts like this, no one is dividing people “by color,” but by experience. While race may be largely imaginary biologically, it has been and continues to be a major variable related to a person’s economics, education, housing, etc. due to the external factors that do treat race as significant (i.e., as an American, we have historically and systemically discriminated against non-white people in pretty much every facet of civic and social life).
That stuff matters to…a lot of people. But it’s not at the expense of white people–we can all be happy to see diversity in our communities. It’s a net gain for everyone.
Yes - I’m white as well. It’s more so that I want to see more diverse representation because I believe that a majority white (also majority men) tends to push out people of colour as they will be a minority group.
For example, if a thread about abortion (an issue that affects mostly women) was filled with men talking about it - it’s unlikely that a women would want to comment there. I believe the same would apply with a majority of people being white in a thread about BLM for example.
I think it could’ve been worded better but I didn’t really think about the wording of these much at all.
I understand.
I guess part of me wanted to get away from the same pervasive US politics that’s plaguing reddit. I had hopes that maybe we wanted to build a less american community and more inclusive of other points of view but it seems we are going to fall back to the same thing here.
I guess part of me wanted to get away from the same pervasive US politics that’s plaguing reddit.
i hope you understand this but: asking whether people are white or not isn’t US politics, it might literally be the single most important sociological question in the world because whether you’re white or not for the vast majority of living human beings immediately predetermines a huge chunk of your status globally
How does wanting to increase diversity result in fewer points of view?
IMO the interesting part is that this is not American politics. Ironically out of all the western countries, the US actually talks about it the most, but the legacy of colonialism and white supremacy is still taken as the default in much of the world. Most folks in Europe are quite blind to it since it’s really taken as the default. It’s a pretty global issue, but very few places do people openly confront it.
Yeah, sorry, I gave an American example because I’m American, but Alyaza said it best… race and its significance is not an exclusively American phenomenon by a long shot. But I sympathize with American fatigue, we do dominate the discussion a lot 😀
What is ‘white’ […] Where I am from, we don’t make these distinctions on the color of a person. That and the fact that unless we are quantifying somehow the ‘shade’ of the skin color it’s impossible to make any serious category.
i absolutely promise that your country does, whether you are conscious of that or not. whiteness, in any case, is a social construct (and even if it wasn’t, race and ethnicity are also basically arbitrary) so you’re not going to ever get a singular, satisfactory answer on this. the whole point at a sociological level is that it’s an amorphous, hegemony-based category that transcends political barriers and basically divides the world into “haves” and “have-nots”. it doesn’t make sense because it can’t ever, it’s arbitrary, and it’s not a “serious” category because it’s not really intended to be.
unfortunately, on that basis it’s also the single most important (and unambiguous) descriptor of one’s racial identity in a global context–so we’re kind of locked into using it here because it is actually really important to know what our community looks like, and we don’t literally want to use American census groupings.
I meant that there is no official sanctioned discrimination (but of course there is racism in my country). If I remember correctly, in the US you have documents where you have to write your ethnicity or the color of your skin. This makes me think that there is an active effort by the government to categorize people based on the color of their skin. This for me is immoral.
It also is ridiculous because there is no definition of what ‘white’ is or how much white is white. There must be like thousands of shades of skin colors but no definition of what white is.
And I’m saying this because there also countries you may call white in Europe that are dirt poor and clearly in the have-nots bag so this ‘whites have’ and the rest ‘don’t have’ is a very american way of understanding this.
Again, just hoped for a less americanized point of view.
Uh, outside of census data, no, I don’t think ethnicity or colour of skin is in us documents. The discrimination does not come from law targeting based on ethnicity but usually the characteristics of the social group that are inherited from segregation and slavery.
Also, yes, there is no definition of white, it’s why we phrased it “do you consider yourself white?”.
It’s not as bad now, but these used to be on things like IDs/driver’s licenses and birth certificates. My parents (both born in the late 60s, one white, one biracial) have the races of both parents listed (and in the case of my maternal grandfather, still listed as ‘Negro’) on their birth certificates, while mine from the 90s does not, IIRC.
One area of official documentation that absolutely does still are tickets from cops, whether traffic or otherwise, as every traffic ticket I’ve gotten in my life has listed my race. (Amusing for me as a biracial person because I’ve gotten three different ones listed over the years, but I digress.) There’s still things in the legal system that very explicitly call out race still.
Oof, that’s awful. I didn’t know.
For recent tickets, is it actually to make sure that demographics are accounted for with police action in the hopes of countering racial profiling? As for the legal system, is it about asking a jury to be of a race similar to the defendant (is that a thing? I’m not too familiar)?
I’m not sure, but I would guess that it’s for the first, at the very least. At least for my traffic tickets, it was not something asked of me, but was written down by the ticketing officer. I have no experience with the actual trial side, but again, your assumption is mine there as well.
In this context it’s mainly shorthand for privilege because white includes most European ancestry. I can’t speak for everyone here but I absolutely love diversity and I’m thrilled we have such good representation on so many levels but this is a good potential target for improvement.
As an American, there isn’t any official paperwork I’ve ever seen in the US that requests, let alone requires, my skin tone or race, with the sole exception of the US census and the occasional optional and anonymous EEOC questionnaire that some job applications have, neither of which record anything to do with skin color or appearance.
So are you saying 23andme is lying about my ancestry
Honestly? Yes, kinda. Ancestry is a lot more a cultural phenomenon than a genetic one.
That’s a lot of words for you to say you literally have zero understanding how the lived experience of people of color is very different.
Beehaw wants to be better than reddit, which was mostly straight white men voices at the detriment of everyone else. It’s really dishonest as even in the EU the loved experience of people of color is different.
It’s really ignorant and narrow-minded of you as white people are a minority worldwide but the majority in wealth and tech. A space that celebrates people of color is rare and why oh fucking why do you HAVE to make it about you?
I don’t understand why race is important in a medium where we can’t see each others.
Because people bring their personal experiences, histories, and identities to every discussion. Having a folks with a range of different experiences and identities contributing, imo, greatly benefits discussions; I want to hear multiple perspectives on an issue (within reason of course - I’m not interested in engaging with racists, transphobes, fascists, etc., for obvious reasons). If a community is very one-sided (ex. Mostly white folks, mostly men, and so on) how can I curate a well-balanced perspective on a given topic? I only know what I know, and if everybody around me is coming from a similar background and we’re all saying the same shit - what kind of discussion is that?
Good point, but then you are generalizing about ‘white’ men like they are all the same and they all have the same point of view.
And by saying that it’s unfortunate that the majority of users are ‘white’ it looks as if they wished these users weren’t here.
I’m a cis white man and I felt no offence when reading that. I also embrace diversity and I’m curious why you don’t?
We could build a community of men, each having a unique points of view, but none of them would be a woman’s.
We could build a community of men, each having a unique points of view, but none of them would be a woman’s.
Well said! Hope you don’t mind if I steal this for future use, I think it illustrates the point very well. Could be useful in some real-life interactions, I’m thinking.
Go ahead :)
As a cis white man, amen brother
The interesting thing about words is that we made them all up. Different people feel very differently about certain words in certain contexts. Slang and vernacular are perfect examples of this - we learn how people are using existing words in new ways all the time, and we adjust appropriately. What people don’t always recognize, however, is that words fall in and out of fashion constantly and how they are applied are also cultural artifacts. Prolific artists, famous movies, and important political figures all shape the way we interpret specific words - the cultural zeitgeist controls more than we are often aware.
Rather than assuming that unfortunate means it must be negative, because that’s the experience you’ve had when that word was used around you, I’d suggest asking questions and assuming good faith. You could ask what do you mean, when you use the word unfortunate before jumping to conclusions. Perhaps English isn’t the posters first language, or perhaps English in the country they are from use the word unfortunate in a very different way. Questions and good faith, rather than assumptions and escalation can quickly solve any questions you have and everyone leaves happy.
I think this is also a perfect example of why diversity is so amazing to be around and experience because you get exposed to so many more ways to utilize language, so many different backgrounds, and so many diverse points of view 😄
That’s true. I don’t think all white folks, or men, or any other category of people is a monolith - but just that hearing, for example, a woman’s POV - especially a Black woman’s POV, or a trans woman’s POV - on gender disparity in sports is a voice I really want to hear in that discussion, since those folks might have a very specific take on the topic. Even if everyone else in the discussion is a man - and I assume they WILL be men from a wide range of cultures, language communities, sexual orientations, etc. - still, none of them can bring the particular nuance that (in this example) a woman can.
I could get a lot more political on this, but I think that’s really the heart of the issue. I believe admins are saying “we have a majority group here in these ways, and while that’s not unexpected, it’s unfortunate that we’re pretty one-sided in those categories of folks right now - so we want to try and change that.”
However, I want to acknowledge that the tendency to single out white people and men, in particular, is kind of a thing right now, which - speaking from my lived experience as a white person - can feel real bad in the immediate moment. Nobody wants to feel unwelcome or like their existence is problematic. Unfortunately, the world is set up in ways where certain groups of folks (usually white, usually men) are repeatedly asked their opinion on things, or given the power to make decisions over the lives of people from completely different backgrounds. Assuming everybody is engaging in good faith, it’s more about making sure everybody has a seat at the table and less about “your very existence is problematic and you should be shunned.” Yes, some people mean that when they say it, but again, that does fuck all to foster a healthy discussion space (again, within reason here - fuck fascists and so on). How tf is a woman (for example), regardless of the diversity of her lived experiences, ever going to be able to speak to men’s mental issues and the crisis of care going on there? Like, a thousand women, all of them from widely different cultures and backgrounds, could never bring the personal nuance necessary to truly discuss that important issue.
Do marginalized people sometimes vent by making sweeping generalizations? Sure. Does that promote open and healthy discussion? No. But not every space is a discussion space, and I try to stay open-minded when I’m met with that energy. People are hurting; sometimes they talk shit. And this goes both ways - folks can end up defensive after hearing people talk shit constantly. That’s completely natural, but I truly don’t think that’s the case here. And Beehaw is young - there’s still lot of growing to do. That this survey was even launched makes me feel like Beehaw’s future is pretty bright.
I don’t understand why race is important in a medium where we can’t see each others.
I think it matters if the demographics of the site skew strongly from the demographics of the countries represented, as that suggests something about the site might be offputting to certain people.
Though I don’t think this is the case based on the results?
What could be offputting about this? I don’t get it.
Maybe there have been a lot of issues with these people you call ‘white’ here but I haven’t seen anything out of the ordinary.
What could be offputting about this? I don’t get it.
Allowed communities, moderation styles, etc. If you find that certain demographics are not eager to participate it might suggest an issue with moderation.
Maybe there have been a lot of issues with these people you call ‘white’
I don’t think that’s the implication at all. They’re not saying ‘white’ people are bad. They’re expressing concern that they might be hosting a place that isn’t sufficiently welcoming to others.
Where I am from, we don’t make these distinctions on the color of a person.
Not everybody is from wherever you’re from. There’s a chart up there for that, too.
So you don’t care about people from other countries and you want to bring US politics to this site AGAIN like in reddit? Got it.
You seem to go out of your way to read and response to everything in the most argumentative way possible. Basically every comment I see from you is this way. In case you are not aware, people are not obligated to talk to you. Please discover a new way to interact with people.
Thank you for taking time in reading my comments even if you dislike it so much.
Yeah, this whole thing REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. I’m going to get shit for this, but it comes off as really sexist, racist and - as someone who is neurodivergent - kinda condescending.
Exactly. Maybe we’ll get an explanation.
Its the same oppression olympics game they always play. They think the more disenfranchised you are the more legitimacy there is to what you are saying.
Calling it oppression Olympics to desire diverse representation is such an astonishingly bad faith interpretation and self report.
it’s astonishing how frequently the worst takes on our instance come from kbin federation chuds who don’t seem to understand where they are
So many of the comments just read like “white cishet chud is angry that Beehaw wants to be more diverse”. Then again being angry at shit they don’t understand is a default setting for white cishet chuds 🤷
The sad reality is that there is racism in more countries than the US. Even if it’s “just” subconscious racism.
Where are you from if you don’t have to deal with that?
I just want to pipe in and and say thank you for caring about diversity. Lots of discourse here about how that’s hostile to white people. In my opinion purposefully misinterpreting “unfortunate” to mean “white people not welcome” is a perfect representation of why WHY diversity matters.
Because as a POC it’s clear to me that there are valid reasons why a white-dominated community can be… Uncomfortable. Like the very comments here that push back and pretend that race isn’t a issue and that POC are racist ones for caring about it. Not bothering at all to understand where it’s coming from and why it matters.
Edit: I didn’t write this at first but I can’t bite my tongue anymore. White people who get hositle over this have suffered from main character syndrome for way too long. You feel unwelcome because some online community simply wants more diversity? Why is it that in your mind one more POC means one less white person? Speaks more about your world view than anything else.
I’ve felt unwelcome my entire life because people resent my intrusion into their white bubbles. The whole point of Beehaw is that it’s inclusive. I’m a snowflake who wants her safe space.
In my opinion purposefully misinterpreting “unfortunate” to mean “white people not welcome” is a perfect representation of why WHY diversity matters.
it’s a good indicator we are going to continue to ask that question on the survey forever, for what that’s worth. very clearly a “the beatings will continue until morale improves” question because oh god, some of the responses here
I’m so glad that the mods aren’t getting steamrolled into submission. I was having a bad mental health day today and some of these comments really bothered me. Immediately my reddit-trained mind was like, oh, you dumbass snowflake. Touch grass.
But then I was like, fuck, the whole reason I’m on Beehaw is because it’s supposed to be different here. Thanks for continuously affirming my belief in it 👍
To be clear, we’re also aware that repeatedly being exposed to this kind of conversation can be demoralizing as well. I watched this happen on another website where the just asking questions crew would show up in every goddamn thread about every identity that wasn’t ciswhitemale. I remember a specific thread asking for women to talk about what’s hard for them, which was both dominated by male voices before any women showed up and then when women actually talked about the problems they experienced (and deeply couched their language, I might add), they were met with an endless line of men insisting “that’s not me”.
So to be absolutely clear, we value your voice and we don’t want to lose the community we’ve built here either. If this is ever frustrating to see, please vent about it. I can’t promise I’ll be perfect, but I’m trying my best to avoid tone policing (I’ve already screwed this up a few times, and I apologize deeply to anyone I scared away), especially on issues which directly effect or marginalize your experience. I think it helps a lot to have such a diverse set of responses, because often people are unaware how deeply frustrating and exhausting fragility and managing other’s emotional state can be, especially when you are on the receiving end of marginalization.
The most refreshing thing here has been to be able to respond and be backed up in my response.
Personally the most demoralizing thing about having the conversation taken over is often not being able to respond/take it back. At first I was afraid to say that this is just one more example of white people main character syndrome, because I was like, ugh, I’m going to get a bunch of comments of how I’m the actual racist one for generalizing all white people.
The justaskingquestions crowd makes me feel crazy for getting upset, and then villanizes me for being the upset one. But obviously I’d get more upset than them, they’re the ones erasing me.
So normally I just slink away from these places, whether it’s online, or my (supportive) boyfriend’s shitty white family, or my uni alum groups, or my workplace. And that’s the most demoralizing part, that they can say whatever they want and I have no recourse other than to leave.
So it means a lot to me that I don’t have to leave here. That I can say my piece and have it backed up by the mods, not bullied & downvoted into submission.
I genuinely support people asking in good faith. Some white people just don’t understand and they want to. But by the 2nd or 3rd response it’s very clear which are in good faith and which are simply camouflaging their intolerance. So thank you for shutting the latter down.
I’d like to respectfully ask that you don’t hide behind the excuse of people acting in bad faith. I think that section, as written, is actually difficult to interpret in good faith. The charitable interpretation of it is that we need to be intentionally welcome and aware of POC in the community, but that is just factually not what that sentence says. It just says that it’s unfortunate most of the people here are white. It just seems like an intentionally inflammatory way of phrasing the meaning.
This has been addressed ad nauseum in this post.
Words are entirely made up. You are bringing social connotations to the definition of the word unfortunate. The person who used the word clarified how it was meant to be used. Your ‘charitable interpretation’ has been both definitively proven already. We’ve asked for people to treat each other with good faith in this space and have requested that you ask questions rather than assume bad faith unless it’s unequivocally clear they are spreading hate speech. This is outlined in our philosophy docs and is generally nice behavior.
I understand that you are upset, but I’d ask of you and anyone else reading this to stop creating the same conversation again in another place on this post.
[edit: on re-reading, the sentence that followed it that said “I think there’s outreach to be done” is clear, even if I think the words could have been ordered better for flow.]
The charitable interpretation of it is that we need to be intentionally welcome and aware of POC in the community
Yeah, I think as written it implies too much to be interpreted unambiguously. I agree, the charitable interpretation is “we need to do more” but that’s an inference that is drawn from my pre-existing understanding of beehaw’s management and vision, and maybe a sprinkling of trust in their intentions.Without explicitly stating “unfortunately we failed to reach minority communities,” my feeling is that it leaves a lot of room for accusation of other parties for the “unfortunateness” of the situation or misreading of future intent, and personally I think that just leads to unclear communication.
As a fellow snowflake, I’ve got your back.
A bunch of snowflakes makes a blizzard ;)
Thank you for writing this!
As a straight white male it’s a bit hard to feel your words carry any weight in discussions like this.
I’m here trying to be an ally to ant decent human being who might feel they need one! <3
I actually think your words carry a lot of weight, both bad and good. As an ally you can advocate for and support. As a POC it can be exhausting to always have fight. You can’t live our lives but you can help carry the torch when we’re too tired to do so. And other white people care more about what you have to say.
The reality is as a white man you have outsized power. You can use that to dismiss and berate, or you can use it to understand and support. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for doing the latter. Your words are extremely important in this discussion.
Yeah, it’s easy to forget. A former boss of mine had a great coffee mug, it said… paraphrasing here but basically “when you’re used to privelege, equality can feel like oppression”.
I’m so happy to part of corner of the net that actually try to love your neighbor instead of hating everyone and everything.
I just don’t understand why you would want to waste the little energy you have to be an ass.
Basically… “Don’t be a dick” - Wil Wheaton
(Of yeah… the biggest fucking irony… got to love all the white folks working on a tan while still hating people of color. I mean. What the fuck? Almost everyone love a tan… but that’s just working on getting the skin color that bugs you… nutters)
Ok, sorry for the rant. I’m a bit drunk at the moment. Love you guys!
I like to say that everyone deserves white privilege… Including white people! Thanks for showing up and trying to be a good person!
o7
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I think it can certainly be reworded but I’m not really sure how to put it. The core idea is that (at least in North America and Europe), people who are considered “white” have privilege so we want to make sure that we can take that into account.
We also have a !poc@beehaw.org community so at least, it seemed to make sense to me to word it that way to account for that point of view.
I’m not really sure how we can better handle this question - it’s certainly tricky.
I think what you’re trying to say is that the lack of racial diversity is unfortunate, but people are reading it as “unfortunate we have all these white people.”
Probably just change the wording to that effect, or maybe something about how having such a large majority of a community from a single race can cause people from other races/ethnicities to feel left out, etc.
I think you might be replying to the wrong message but I appreciate the suggestion.
“The core idea is that (at least in North America and Europe), people who are considered “white” have privilege”
What countries in Europe are we talking about?
As a POC from a european country I have never felt discriminated based on the color of my pigment and have had the exact same opportunities as the people who would classify as “white”.
I would classify the discrimination in Europe more based on the fact if you are an immigrant and the specific country of origin.
The above is frowned upon much more.
Even then diversity can also be reached to make sure to target more people from different countries who then bring different cultures to a forum if we talk just about Europe.
It is impossible to talk about Europe as 1 entity, there are so many different countries and cultures within Europe, which is diverse in itself.
It is just (hopefully) some food for thought.
Maybe something along the lines of “Do you identify as someone of an ethnic minority?” or “Have you ever experienced discrimination based on skin color or apparent ethnicity?” Not perfect by any means, but some food for thought.
As someone who is from the US, I actually somewhat agree with those who say that asking for race/ethnicity is a very America/Western Europe-centric way of thinking. While I recognize that the vast majority of Beeple are indeed from those areas, it can be alienating for those who come from countries where the concept of “whiteness” either isn’t a deciding factor in discrimination or doesn’t even matter/exist in the first place.
It definitely is a tricky subject to work with. I think the survey was decently sensitive, but while I appreciate the thought behind this post, there probably should have been more care with and input on how it was worded, even if that added input is just having a couple people from outside US/Canada/Western Europe look it over and give opinions.
Maybe something along the lines of “Do you identify as someone of an ethnic minority?” or “Have you ever experienced discrimination based on skin color or apparent ethnicity?” Not perfect by any means, but some food for thought.
It definitely is a tricky subject to work with. I think the survey was decently sensitive, but while I appreciate the thought behind this post, there probably should have been more care with and input on how it was worded, even if that added input is just having a couple people from outside US/Canada/Western Europe look it over and give opinions.
the problem with suggestions like this is we did think about this, and there is a reason we phrased it this way on the survey. you are kind of presuming we just winged this wording–we did not. you make suggestions for alternatives, but i assume for example you don’t want ethnic Hungarians in Romania or white Afrikaners answering that they’re ethnic minorities for the purpose of what we’re asking here (whether or not they’re white–both groups are very much so). i also assume you also don’t want white people to say they’re oppressed in American society for not being the center of the universe (because many white people do think reverse racism is real, and a real problem). both of those are off the cuff examples of big problems with your proposals—and indeed every alternative we’ve heard so far runs into being far more Anglo- and ethno-centric than what we put here.
Oh no, I was referring to the post itself, not the survey. While I posed ideas for alternative ways of asking the question, I guess I could’ve been more clear that I felt the survey was as good as it could have been given the questions you were wanting to ask; I think what more people were reacting to was the way things were worded in this post, and that’s where I felt more care could have been put, considering OP said he didn’t think about the wording of the post very much. How you report the data is just as important as how you collect it.
I wasn’t trying to step on anyone’s toes, but give a good faith (yet apparently poorly worded) criticism. That said, this dead horse has been beaten enough, so I’ll just end by saying I very heavily respect the stuff y’all are doing and how you’re handling the massive growth of this instance. Thank you for working so hard to create a safe and diverse corner of the internet. 🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️
Oh no, I was referring to the post itself, not the survey. While I posed ideas for alternative ways of asking the question, I guess I could’ve been more clear that I felt the survey was as good as it could have been given the questions you were wanting to ask; I think what more people were reacting to was the way things were worded in this post, and that’s where I felt more care could have been put, considering OP said he didn’t think about the wording of the post very much. How you report the data is just as important as how you collect it.
ah, my mistake :)
Turks and Greeks ethnically are pretty much the same, but there is a huge difference in how they get treated. Privilege-wise I guess Greeks would be white and Turks not, but that feels weird. It’s a complex subject.
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Don’t worry, you’ve been kind every time I’ve seen a message from you and I wouldn’t ascribe someone else’s comments onto another.
We’ve been thinking it over and I think the best way to make that question clearer would be to ‘double down’ on the concept of whiteness as a form of purity. It’s not ideal but it would probably answer the question for people who are questioning - the answer is probably non-white. If we add mixed then it just confuses the results more than it does make the data more actionable.
The other choice we’d have is likely to define ethnicity but that is almost certainly going to be a lot less actionable and hell to pick a condensed list especially from a non-US point of view.
Thank you for your continued support!
I’m south american as well, but from a different country, so perhaps I can help a bit further. Along with colorism, we have a different threshold for “white”, simply because “latino” is a made up ethnicity, it only exists outside Latin America and it means nothing to us.
So you might have got a bunch of answers that the expectation would be “non white” but wasn’t.
So you might have got a bunch of answers that the expectation would be “non white” but wasn’t.
by the very nature of the question we have no expectations about how it’s going to be answered so i’m not sure this is actually an issue–and if it is i doubt we can really design around it anyways without manually assigning people the categories “white” or “non-white”
It feels really weird like, is someone “lighter” or “white”? Can you show anywhere in a country like you describe where white is used for demographics or are you just trying to make an argument?
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I’m aware? You acted like people would choose the wrong choice.
Your “white” class is still the rich minority, so if they fell for the wrong choice, it will still be helpful to show the number of people who are privileged.
You PLEASE look up global colonization and how it effected every culture plz. Don’t talk down to me. Your intentions sound like they are to cause trouble not to be helpful.
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I am hostile? You spoke to me like I was a fool.
Learn to give the respect you want. Learn to not act like the person you are talking to is a fool.
You need to work on YOUR actions if you do not understand how disrespectful and dismissive you are. You don’t get to talk to anyone with disrespect and demand it yourself.
But you’re just running around JAQing off and either need to educate YOURSELF or you’re an bad actor and I don’t have space in my life to figure out if you just never learned to treat others with respect or if you’re posting because you’re exactly the kind of entitled privileged person we are so sad we have a lot of.
while i get how “Please look up the concept of colorism, which is a form of racism.” comes off, you are the only one escalating this and this person was obviously responding to you in good faith and edited their post to clarify their intent. you do not need to be this aggressive or frankly respond in this way at all to them
Um, global colonization influenced colorism?
It seems like I’m probably the rarest Beeple here, since I’m from Vietnam (which is not even in the graph), and I’m not even 16 yet LOL
Well, many of those countries only have 1 person! So if you didn’t answer the form, no Vietnam
Awwwww, welcome! I see you just joined a few days ago like me. Seems like a great time here 🎉
Maybe an interesting question: how does this compare to the diversity of admins? I guess doing an actual survey is bad for your anonimity, but some idea could be cool
Maybe an interesting question: how does this compare to the diversity of admins? I guess doing an actual survey is bad for your anonimity, but some idea could be cool
we are more diverse than the community as a whole because there are only four of us. we didn’t separately poll our mods but they’re probably a bit more diverse on average than the site just eyeballing it
I was wondering about this, too - but including the mod team, as well. It’s good to have a mixed group of folks when it comes to moderation purposes. Maybe something to consider when hiring for the new communities?
Us Aussies sneak into the top 5, yay.
As for the age thing, I’ll just say I have posted to usenet :)
I’ve posted to Usenet years before the HTML protocol existed.
I understand the arguments given by many of us regarding why knowing the demographics is important. Maybe I shouldn’t feel this way, but I bear the burden of having to deal with the crap that comes with being at the intersection of many of the categories that are discriminated against in real life, and reddit/lemmy was/is a place where I could engage with others while not having to shoulder most of that. So it bothers me a little that it is being brought up here too, albeit indirectly. On the other hand I can imagine how this would be different if there was actual discriminatory behaviour in beehaw itself.
My only feedback is the words choices here were, unfortunate. It comes across as the author found undesired demographics which felt not inclusive.
In my opinion this is not being nice.
I am a minority in some parts of the graph and a majority in others. Reading this left my feeling I wasn’t welcome here which I have felt ever day before reading this post.
Which part specifically made you feel not welcome?
The part where he says it’s “mostly white people which is unfortunate” was an odd thing to say.
Doesn’t make white people feel very welcome I’d imagine.
The part where he says it’s “mostly white people which is unfortunate” was an odd thing to say.
Doesn’t make white people feel very welcome I’d imagine.
I’m as white as driven snow and I took that as “it’s unfortunate we don’t have more diversity in this area”
I understood the intent, but words mean things and phrasing matters. As written, it doesn’t seem welcoming or inclusive. They phrased the other sections much better–(which almost makes it seem more targeted even though I sincerely doubt it is)
“We don’t have as much diversity as we would like in this area, so in an effort to cultivate a richer community, we’ll need to do more analysis and outreach. We are open to ideas!”.
The reality is: you can’t force diversity. You can only make an environment where its welcome and encouraged–and you should be welcoming to everyone. Obviously this rubbed some folks the wrong way.
As an aside: it’s also a little short sighted to assume that bucketing people in a “white” group means they aren’t diverse in their own right. I’d imagine there is quite a diverse makeup of “white people” on here-- people from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and elsewhere who all have very different perspectives, cultures, and norms that they bring to the table.
As an aside: it’s also a little short sighted to assume that bucketing people in a “white” group means they aren’t diverse in their own right. I’d imagine there is quite a diverse makeup of “white people” on here-- people from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and elsewhere who all have very different perspectives, cultures, and norms that they bring to the table.
this is the sort of sensitivity and white fragility–the idea that we as white people are diverse too, damnit!–that makes me think it genuinely is “unfortunate” our community is even as white as the survey suggests (and it’s not that white, to be clear!). respectfully: the “diversity of opinion” between various white people in the world is not nearly as interesting as you think it is on a lot of issues, and on those issues i’m not super interested as a non-white person in getting the “diversity” of five opinions from five white people with the same privileges just because they also happen to be from five different majority-white countries.
A couple of things: It sounds like you are assuming I am white.
This response doesn’t seem all that nice or inclusive. Calling someone with an, ironically, slightly different opinion than you (read: diverse), fragile and sensitive seems to be counter to the community you are trying to build here. Right? Am I crazy?
I think we need to strive to have an environment where we can have open, honest, and sometimes uncomfortable conversations about all of this stuff. Being dismissive of it as “white fragility” isn’t productive or helpful.
As I said in my initial comment, I understand the intent of that section of the report, and I think more diversity is better than homogeneity, but the way that information was conveyed, and almost specifically that information, seems unwelcoming. For what its worth, I very intentionally joined Beehaw vs any other instance because I truly appreciate what you are trying to do here. So hopefully you take this in the manner it is intended: (hopefully) constructive criticism and food for thought.
A couple of things: It sounds like you are assuming I am white.
if you are not: you sound completely indistinguishable from every white poster on here who thinks the idea of not being the center of attention is some sort of attack on their identity. the fact that you immediately jump to “well, you’re assuming” does not help you beat the allegations here either.
I think we need to strive to have an environment where we can have open, honest, and sometimes uncomfortable conversations about all of this stuff. Being dismissive of it as “white fragility” isn’t productive or helpful.
very bluntly: this is white fragility and you are again demonstrating to me that maybe the “unfortunate” phrasing is actually the correct one here despite all the ire it’s drawn. if your “diversity” is when five white people in a room have opinions and those five white people happen to be from different countries and have distinct culture that’s essentially just white people jerking themselves off. there are a million other spaces that cater to that online, so if you’re interested in that i’d recommend going literally anywhere else.
As an aside: it’s also a little short sighted to assume that bucketing people in a “white” group means they aren’t diverse in their own right. I’d imagine there is quite a diverse makeup of “white people” on here-- people from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and elsewhere who all have very different perspectives, cultures, and norms that they bring to the table.
It was precisely white people that created the concept of whiteness, without taking into account any cultural differences (or, actively trying to hide them), in order to create a us vs them situation.
We don’t get to complain about POC using a term that we created, the way we created it.
I think you should read the post again. To me it seems that a focus was put on being an inclusive and diverse space. That includes everyone and you of course too!
Always love me some data porn. Thanks for this!
Looks good!
Beeple has got to be the official term for us going forward!
Nice to see a pretty diverse crowd in here! A bit US health perhaps but that’s too be expected. Doing my bit to represent the tiny percentages of other places :D
Nice! Thanks for compiling all that!
Regarding the gender split… IIRC, most Reddit users are male. This actually does have a bit of an effect on Reddit’s share of trans people. Worldwide, I believe it’s about an even split between transmasculine and transfeminine people. But Reddit has more transfems than transmascs, and I’m pretty sure it’s because people don’t leave their preferred website when coming out as trans. In that same vein, I hear that tumblr leans more transmasc.
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At the moment I don’t remember, but was there even a distinction in the survey (male vs transmasc)?
I don’t think there is. I just answered female.
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Yes I touched on this elsewhere but a simple question of ‘do you identify as trans’ is perhaps the most simple and elegant solution.
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Yeah, Reddit and a lot of forum websites are very heavily biased towards men so I’m not surprised we ended up inheriting that bias. I’d be nice to reach out to correct that bias.
One other thing to note is that this doesn’t give us any information on trans people which might affect how we assess that bias. It’s something that would be interesting to see in a future survey.
I frequently link posts from Lemmy communities to friends, family, and some co-workers in part to encourage wider acceptance and participation.
If people keep up with the good content and keep engaging then more will come in time.
Thanks for sharing this, very interesting!
Also, shout-out to my 7 Danish homies! We almost made the graph! 😅🇩🇰
Thanks for posting the results! Glad to be a part of this community 😊
As expected, mostly white which is unfortunate.
Well, as the graph shows before, it’s also mostly U.S-based. Those are really good diversity numbers if you factor that into mind. Like, way better than expected.
I just checked 2020 US census data (https://data.census.gov/table?g=010XX00US&d=DEC+Demographic+Profile) and that’s unfortunately not true unless I’m reading the data wrong. It says that people who identify as White form around 61.6% of people in the US.
It’s 71.5, as of 2020. Also, if you take into account that most of our users are technical and online, then that number probably increases given the digital divide. Of course, this could all be negated by that very large “prefer not to say” percentage.
