- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- news@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- news@hexbear.net
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The title is not entirely correct. They don’t plant to “introduce” conscription. Germany had conscription from its formation of the Bundeswehr in 1955 until it was put on hiatus in 2011 because people back then thought that Ivan was no longer a problem. So what they think about is not “introducing” but just reactivate it.
The changes will be that while before 2011, conscription was only for men, it is planned to be for both sexes, and military service will no longer the one preferred service (back then, you had to go through quite some hoops if you did not want to serve in the Bundeswehr and do your time in e.g. social services). This time, the military option is just one of several that can be chosen.
That makes sense and good on them for conscription not caring about gender
At this stage it’s all hot air. Nobody has even started talking about how to finance it and the defense minister isn’t even 100% sure he will get his requested additional funds for the next cycle. When somebody asked him about the topic he replied that he isn’t categorically against it but he would have to finance (and restructure, as the necessary infrastructure for it has been degraded/scrapped) more important topics first.
Preparing for world war?
It isn’t just about the military. I’ve not read the article, but Germany suffers from not having enough people working in social services. This problem got worse after getting rid of conscription. You could either choose military service or social work.
By reintroducing it, they hope to fill in some gaps.
“What should we do to get more people working in the health sector?”
“Better pay and more manageable shifts!”
“Roll back privatization to shift the focus to sustainability over profits!”
“I’d just enslave the youth again.”
[Employee 1& 2 get defenestrated for a change]
Defenestrated? You think the German military has that large of a budget?!
You can use the same window more than once
Der Fenstersturzschein des TÜV ist für nur einen Fenstersturz gültig. Sie müssen die Fenstersturzmeldungstelle noch mal kontaktiert um einen neuen Schein zu bekommen, dann einen anderen Termin bei uns nachfragen. Schönen tag noch. HALLO NÄCHSTE BITTE
Apparently not :(
That’s a great idea, but how much glass do you need to knock out of a window before it just becomes door.
Haha, trick question. Doors go all the way to the floor.
Pedantically speaking… they don’t. And it may be difficult to draw a distinction between a window with a very low sill and a door with an extremely high sill.
Doors usually have something on the other side.
Yeah, instead of actually fixing the system and paying people normal wages, while also fixing the stupid education/certification system that social service workers need to go through, let’s just throw a bunch of teenagers at it, it will surely fix our problems!
You could either choose military service or social work.
Also some hospital work. Bedpan cleaning, etc.
But it kept you out of the army, and took the strain off of hospitals and social services.
U.S.A. should adopt this policy. It would humble out the nepo children of wealthy pieces of shit, and likely resolve the social issues that people complain about.
The nepo babies wouldn’t serve–same as always. And the political unpopularity of conscription has never changed. The last war draft is still in living memory, and US current military activity hasn’t been an improvement in terms of public appetite.
The US introduces conscription again, and there’ll be riots–and I don’t mean “some kids camped at college and the jackboots locked them up” protests; it’ll be government-building burning, widespread-looting riots.
If you want to do conscription, the kids have to trust the government not to kill them for oil.
They should never trust the government for that specifically - they’re always looking for someone to kill for oil!
Yeah rich people are known to never be able to avoid the draft
I think making the rich mingle with the normal people more would be beneficial. It’s harder to dehumanize the poor when you’ve met them. Can’t call them lazy or stupid and just not “wanting” it enough when you see them work as hard as you and not getting as far.
Although, I think the way things are it’ll never happen though. Nepo babies would dodge everything even if something like this were to occur.
There’s better ways, like reducing car dependency and increasing housing density. Have people from all walks of life, live near each other and travel with each other, without being isolated in metal boxes. The ultra rich might still avoid that too, but at least the 99% will be around each other.
And you don’t need to force people to go to war to achieve it.
You’re absolutely right. I was trying to get what I hoped was the salient point out of the person’s post.
I knew a few guys in Europe I think maybe Austrian or something where they came from lots of money but went to school with “others” and they seemed pretty well-adjusted. Although, they have a lot of the other advantages that you’ve listed as well.
Maybe we should turn this idea around? I know tons of healthy rich old people that have nothing better to do than bicker and complain, how about we force them to do a free full year of community service? Why is their time and energy considered more valuable than the youths’?
And maybe it would humble those wealthy nepo pieces of shit, and likely resolve the social issues that people complain about.
I’d applaud giving Elon Musk a chance to live out his flamethrower power fantasies in person.
Is a flamethrower a completely inappropriate weapon in modern warfare? Yes. Should we tell him that? Don’t you fucking dare.
I had a class mate who spent his holidays hiking in Nepal and places with his parents. When he was born a doctor close to his parents discovered a serious heart issue that made him ineligible for being drafted. I mean sure. You have a heart issue that you can’t run 30 minutes, but you are doing week long hikes in 5.000-6.000m altitude.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortunate_Son
It’s funny because it’s an American song.
I’ve not met very many vets that support mandatory service. When I say not many, I could count them on one hand.
That’s because in the US you could be sent abroad to kill brown people for oil. I was a conscript in my country in the 80’s (Nato). In my country conscripts couldn’t be sent abroad, only professionals. I’d be ok with defending home soil. That doen’t mean that I wanted to do my tour, but I did it. I think I learnt a lot, not least about serving for the common good. Looking back it was good for me. Also, at hat time, after service you’d be in the reserves (simply listed) and the country could raise an army of millions, who’d only need some refresher training in a week, not like the green ass russian conscripts in Ukraine right now.
I’m favor of conscription for limited duration, and no possibility of deployment abroad. Also, women too. That wasn’t a thing then.
You’d be a fool not to at this point.
Prepare, sure. There’s a lot of alternate ways things could resolve, though, and MAD is about as sturdy as it’s ever been.
What if instead we just didn’t do world war 3?
I love that idea. Quick, tell Putin and Bibi!
Then we’ll all be speaking Russian in 15 years.
Unfortunately sometimes war is unavoidable
This is an unserious proposal. Germany spends about 1.5 percent of its GDP(*) on defence, much of it wasted, and increasing it to even 2 percent has involved painful and extended political wrangling. If the country collectively cannot find the will to tweak its budget to fund a modest increase in defence spending, it is not going to countenance universal conscription.
(*) GDP, not budget; error pointed out by Enkrod
This is PATENTLY wrong. It’s 1.49% of GDP, not budget.
Defense budget is 10.9% of the governments budget, it’s the second largest budgeted item after social wellfare and in front of infrastructure (which is crumbling) and debt. To increase it to 2% of gross domestic product means spending an additional amount equal to the entire budget for education and research.
Oh wow, this is the first time I see this difference mentioned. NATO really expects that much military spending?
Apologies for the mistake.
But the point remains: 2% of GDP is the NATO target, getting even to that point for Germany has been like pulling teeth, and a serious implementation of universal conscription would be a much bigger ask.
Dead children don’t need education, problem solved!
It’s a serious proposal, but not as a universal conscription. It’s intended to only call everyone in for the health check and use that as a way to get young people interested in the army.
There are different models floating around, the most serious being that everyone (including women) gets called in and you basically choose between civil service and army. The civilian side can ramp up slots rather quickly, the army doesn’t. So the army probably will ramp up over several years.
Also, I wouldn’t call 100 billion € a “modest increase”.
To be honest, conscription aside, I think a gap year of civil service would be a good idea. It gives you a break from school - university - work, you don’t feel like you lost time since everyone has to do it, and you get into a mindset outside of your preplanned route, which might do you good.
This is already very common in Germany, if anything it would make it worse for many
To be honest, getting a majority to agree that the youth should do what most other generations did seems easier than taking money out of other budgets. Even before Russias attack there had been calls to make every young person do a year or Service for society. The plan was more socially beneficial back then but the sentiment of just ignoring what the younger generation wants isn’t new
The draft has never been abolished in germany, it has only officially been ‘suspended’. Resuming it would be easy.
Legally yes it would be easy. Practically we do not have the infrastructure anymore for it.
Heck iirc the state doesn’t even have the capability to know who would need to be drafted anymore.
Ah the Trump lies really got to you
i don;t like conscription into the military but i’ve always felt some sort of manatory non-military civil or social service or peace corps participation would do a lot for encouraging civic participation in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.
in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.
That’s supposed to be the taxes you pay for the rest of you life
taxes don’t allow you to appreciate civic participation…
In this day and age it feels like a McDonald’s worker could ai copilot a drone better than the folks over in Israel, so no I totally disagree with conscription without certain safeguards in place to prevent genocide or other dumbfuckery.
Well, the main opposition party wants that… Sooo… Maybe in the future, maybe not…
I’m buying broomstick stonks right now
That is so sad, these kinds of times should already be over in humanity’s history. Why doesn’t anyone have a solution? Are the war mongering powers just waiting for the new nuclear deterrent? Future AI terminators pls just go straight to Russia/China/USA leadership and let the humans be
It’s because the leaders aren’t the ones fighting the battles or being targeted. They’re playing chess somewhere far from the violence.
We should just solve conflicts by throwing the presidents or monarchs of the opposing countries in an arena to fight to death.
I think it’d be better if we disregarded highly authoritarian leaders in general and embraced socialism. Back in the day, kings and emperors fought their battles, but it didn’t make their feudalism any less… feudal.
Unfortunately humans are greedy so that won’t ever happen.
Humans cooperated and formed large confederations long before capitalism and liberalism were ideas.
It’s true that unequal and selfish organisations have often consolidated power and squashed other organisations but we’ve also seen humanity going the opposite way many times before.
To shrug our shoulders and say humans are inherently greedy so socialism can’t work is a cop out. We’ve dismantled unequal power structures many times before and we can do it again
Germany needs to draft soldiers to go to Ukraine as soon as possible and help the Ukrainians, because it is the right thing to do.
How about our military stays between our own borders. Let those that want to go go. But don’t force a bunch of our youth to go fight someone else’s war.
If you don’t fight the Russians in Ukraine, you will be fighting them in Germany. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
Hey, I’ve seen this one
Of course you have. The Draft has been active from 1954 to 2010.
