As someone who has been betrayed by people who love me, I’ve come to the realisation that it’s hard to boil down one horrific aspect of someone’s character as their whole.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good – and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
When I listen to Michael Jackson’s Earth Song, I don’t picture him fiddling with kids, I hear the sentiment of his words in that moment contributing to the green movement in which he inspired a new generation of activists (some exaggeration here, but you get what I mean).
Michael Jackson doesn’t mention himself in his songs, he talks about other things and weaves stories that resonate with me on some level. In those moments, it doesn’t matter who wrote those sentiments, I’m just happy that someone did and that they exist.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good – and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
When I listen to Michael Jackson’s Earth Song, I don’t picture him fiddling with kids
All I can say is that it’s pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
Michael Jackson doesn’t mention himself in his songs
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn’t you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
it doesn’t matter who wrote those sentiments
The person behind the sentiments absolutely do matter. If Trump says that rape is wrong, it’s very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he’s a rapist and she’s a rape victim.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
If they’re genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It’s not like people don’t listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
All I can say is that it’s pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I’ve never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always “I like this song” instead of “I like this whole album”.
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn’t you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
I’m unsure what the accusation is here.
If Trump says that rape is wrong, it’s very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he’s a rapist and she’s a rape victim.
Show me the works of Trump that I can bend my knee and call him a master in a craft. Point to his degrees in sociology and political science that I can listen to his expert views on societal matters.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
If they’re genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It’s not like people don’t listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
Dalí’s work is revered, and, while he didn’t partake in genocide, he was a Francoist ghoul who shouted “¡olé!” at the assassination of his friend Federico García Lorca by Nationalists.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I’ve never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always “I like this song” instead of “I like this whole album”.
Considering musicians usually put great care into constructing an album, often around a theme, many which tell a specific story, I’d say you’re wired differently from the people whose music you listen to as well.
But your criterion seems to be “any atrocity an artist commits can be ignored as long as they are good enough at it.” So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity? Is it based on number of Grammy wins or…?
Some put great care into them, others just stick a bunch of related songs onto an album and hope for the best. Pink Floyd’s Animals is a terrible album full of tonally conflicting themes, but Sheep is one of my favourite Floyd songs of all time. You can pick a berry from a bush without having to scratch yourself on the brambles.
So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity?
If they have inspired derivative works, that are pro-humanist. Picasso was a horrible person, but his depiction of the Guernica definitely stirred a few minds to the atrocities happening at the time.
I see, so if I take a Hitler painting and satirize it so that it becomes a pro-humanist work, that makes his own work at a level of artistry where we can forgive his atrocities.
(I think at this stage in this somewhat friendly argument you are deliberately misconstruing my words)
No, someone being good does not make up for them being bad, but the good action alone can be admired by its own merit, and measured by the acts of good it inspires.
If something good does not make up for them being bad, then I don’t see why the good thing deserves my attention. If something else that was good was derived from it, it sounds like that is what deserves my attention.
You wouldn’t have the Taj Mahal without the Quran. Many people believe the Quran is a beautiful work of poetry despite being full of atrocities. I think it should be left in the dustbin of history because it’s a disgusting, immoral book that is responsible for countless atrocities and should be ignored by everyone outside of academic settings no matter how beautiful it is. But the Taj Mahal can be appreciated without reading a page of the Quran.
So appreciate the Taj Mahal. Leave the poetry of the Quran behind. It’s an immoral book written by an immoral person or people.
I wouldn’t suggest anyone read the beautiful poetry of the Quran as long as they don’t pay for it either.
As someone who has been betrayed by people who love me, I’ve come to the realisation that it’s hard to boil down one horrific aspect of someone’s character as their whole.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good – and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
When I listen to Michael Jackson’s Earth Song, I don’t picture him fiddling with kids, I hear the sentiment of his words in that moment contributing to the green movement in which he inspired a new generation of activists (some exaggeration here, but you get what I mean).
Michael Jackson doesn’t mention himself in his songs, he talks about other things and weaves stories that resonate with me on some level. In those moments, it doesn’t matter who wrote those sentiments, I’m just happy that someone did and that they exist.
So put Hitler’s paintings on permanent exhibition in a Berlin art museum?
All I can say is that it’s pretty much the first thing I think of when I hear his voice no matter how much I used to love his music.
Pretty unusual for a musician, wouldn’t you say? Most musicians (and comedians like Cosby) make their music personal.
The person behind the sentiments absolutely do matter. If Trump says that rape is wrong, it’s very different from E. Jean Carroll saying rape is wrong. Because he’s a rapist and she’s a rape victim.
If they’re genuinely good, and contribute to world of Art as whole, why not? It’s not like people don’t listen to Wagner. My guess is that his works are lackluster and have made very little impact in the art world.
I guess you and I are wired different then. I’ve never paid much attention to the artist when I was developing my music tastes. It was always “I like this song” instead of “I like this whole album”.
I’m unsure what the accusation is here.
Show me the works of Trump that I can bend my knee and call him a master in a craft. Point to his degrees in sociology and political science that I can listen to his expert views on societal matters.
Dalí’s work is revered, and, while he didn’t partake in genocide, he was a Francoist ghoul who shouted “¡olé!” at the assassination of his friend Federico García Lorca by Nationalists.
Considering musicians usually put great care into constructing an album, often around a theme, many which tell a specific story, I’d say you’re wired differently from the people whose music you listen to as well.
But your criterion seems to be “any atrocity an artist commits can be ignored as long as they are good enough at it.” So what determines the level of artistry where we can forgive an atrocity? Is it based on number of Grammy wins or…?
Some put great care into them, others just stick a bunch of related songs onto an album and hope for the best. Pink Floyd’s Animals is a terrible album full of tonally conflicting themes, but Sheep is one of my favourite Floyd songs of all time. You can pick a berry from a bush without having to scratch yourself on the brambles.
If they have inspired derivative works, that are pro-humanist. Picasso was a horrible person, but his depiction of the Guernica definitely stirred a few minds to the atrocities happening at the time.
I see, so if I take a Hitler painting and satirize it so that it becomes a pro-humanist work, that makes his own work at a level of artistry where we can forgive his atrocities.
(I think at this stage in this somewhat friendly argument you are deliberately misconstruing my words)
No, someone being good does not make up for them being bad, but the good action alone can be admired by its own merit, and measured by the acts of good it inspires.
If something good does not make up for them being bad, then I don’t see why the good thing deserves my attention. If something else that was good was derived from it, it sounds like that is what deserves my attention.
You wouldn’t have the Taj Mahal without the Quran. Many people believe the Quran is a beautiful work of poetry despite being full of atrocities. I think it should be left in the dustbin of history because it’s a disgusting, immoral book that is responsible for countless atrocities and should be ignored by everyone outside of academic settings no matter how beautiful it is. But the Taj Mahal can be appreciated without reading a page of the Quran.
So appreciate the Taj Mahal. Leave the poetry of the Quran behind. It’s an immoral book written by an immoral person or people.
I wouldn’t suggest anyone read the beautiful poetry of the Quran as long as they don’t pay for it either.
I feel like we’re in agreement then, the Quran is the artist and the Taj Mahal is one of its works.