- cross-posted to:
- worldnews
- politics@lemmy.world
- palestine@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews
- politics@lemmy.world
- palestine@lemmygrad.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/14006090
New UN report outlines the ‘Anatomy of a Genocide’ in Gaza
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At this point just drop the weasel words and say it plain. It is a genocide by all accounts. Its not going to change anything, but call it like it is already.
I disagree.
On what grounds?
On grounds of being a Zionist. Just a guess.
It’s really easy to not see it when someone ignores all the evidence
Lots of reasons but mainly that the high civilian death toll is easily explained by Hamas’s strategy of using human shields and Hamas’s criminal leadership decisions.
The most shocking and inflammatory “reports” are usually unverified and usually come from incredible or incompetent sources, and that this is readily apparent in virtually every article about the war if you can slow your emotions down and actually evaluate the reported facts. Article from credible journalists usually even say “these reports could not be independently verified.”
I also find the IDF to be generally credible, usually victims of lies and exaggeration, whereas I find Hamas to have zero credibility whatsoever. I also think it’s completely justified to continue bombing military targets until every member of Hamas is dead, and that if civilians in the area of a military target have been reasonably warned to evacuate, that’s all that morality or international law requires before launching a strike, especially in light of Hamas’s strategy of hiding among willing civilians while also failing to wear uniforms.
Also the death tolls are going down month over month, and the fact that only 30,000 people are dead in in such a densely populated area of 2.3m people, is a testament to the fact that the warnings mostly work, that the evacuations mostly worked, and that the targeting is mostly very precise. Otherwise, the death toll would be much higher.
I also view the conflict almost entirely in terms of the posture between Israel and Iran and trying to avoid a broader war that could kill 100,000,000 people, perhaps more. Like what are we talking about here? Human life, human rights? Try on 30,000,000 dead and see how sad that makes everyone.
Also, I don’t see how giving Hamas a country advances the cause of human rights? Extreme religious autocracies have never once secured human rights for anyone. In fact if you go to Gaza and start talking about securing human rights for people you might get murdered for being an infidel.
Finally, the handful of legit war crimes committed by Israelis don’t color the entire war for me. Israel actually has a history of prosecuting war criminals, unlike in Gaza where war criminals get a prize from Daddy Hamas.
So these are your grounds for saying that it isn’t a genocide?
- Hamas uses human shields.
- news reports from a war zone cannot be independently verified
- the IDF is credible; Hamas is not
- it is ok to kill civilians provided they were warned to move, because this is “all international law requires” before launching a strike.
- the rate of new deaths is decreasing
- 30,000 (mainly innocents, by any estimate) dead is actually quite low. So warnings work and targeting is precise
- if there was a war with Iran it would be worse
- Hamas bad
But how does this relate to the genocide convention? Are you saying there is no intent?
We can talk about specific points after but I want to understand how this all connects
If Israel is not gullible, could you please ELI5 why are they not allowing journalists to enter Gaza?
Because if they do and you are right they will show the whole world what a moral army Israel has. Right? Do you see the paradox here?
Weren’t Israel also found guilty to provide adequate humanitarian aid, cut food, electricity, drinking water, telecommunications, found guilty of using dumb and extremely powerful bombs over densely populated areas. Destroyed completely the health facilities in Gaza, along with their infrastructure, people’s home, forced mass displacement of millions of Gazans who by the way up until now are not allowed to return to their homes and induced immense suffering of millions of civilians? Isn’t this collective punishment? What about the reciprocity rule in wars? Do you not find the suffering of regular Palestinians extreme?
So please use a bit of critical thinking next time before posting something.
Israel did not participate in the dialogue but issued a press release stating that it “utterly rejects” Ms. Albanese’s report, calling it “an obscene inversion of reality”.
“The very attempt to level the charge of genocide against Israel is an outrageous distortion of the Genocide Convention. It is an attempt to empty the word genocide of its unique force and special meaning; and turn the Convention itself into a tool of terrorists, who have total disdain for life and for the law, against those trying to defend against them,” the release said.
Israel said its war is against Hamas, not Palestinian civilians.
“This is a matter of explicit government policy, military directives and procedures. It is no less an expression of Israel’s core values. As stated, our commitment to uphold the law, including our obligations under international humanitarian law, is unwavering.”
Yes my brother, one party is involved in an obscene inversion of reality and it’s the one that says that Israel’s commitment to uphold the law, including obligations under international humanitarian law, is unwavering. Along with horrible atrocities in Gaza they have been speed-running colonizing the West Bank in recent months.
Why doesn’t Israel just say “yes we are stealing the rest of Palestine now, fuck off” instead of pretending to be the polite (albeit clumsy with the munitions), law-abiding member of the world community, involved in a slight kerfuffle with their neighbor? I mean, they are getting away with it anyway (thanks to U.S. and GER support)… why lie?
I’m not looking forward to how this phase of the ethnic cleansing will be recalled in the future- “The Arabs realized this was a Jewish nation and left willingly, but smashed the TV on the way out”.
At least Ms. Albanese touched on the historic depth of this tragedy. That’s often purposefully omitted.
Furthermore, “the genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure of the native Palestinians,” she continued.
“For over 76 years, this process has oppressed the Palestinians as a people in every way imaginable, crushing their inalienable right to self-determination demographically, economically, territorially, culturally and politically.”
She said the “colonial amnesia of the West has condoned Israel’s colonial settler project”, adding that “the world now sees the bitter fruit of the impunity afforded to Israel. This was a tragedy foretold.”
Israel is always throwing tantrums and calling moral adjective when it’s caught doing bullshit. Such an self-righteous country. Spoiled brats.
No wonder they invented God. Might be the expression of their ego and their self righteousness.
They blame even God for their atrocities (God told is to commit genocide against Amalek, God told Moses to kill 3000 people due to the Golden Calf, God told us to kill people working on Saturday). If they blame God for their actions, it’s very easy for them to also blame Hamas or Palestinians for being genocided
Yes and do you know why we celebrate passover? Because God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart to not let the Isrealites leave Egypt, so He could test these new weapons on Egyptian civilians (who had no power over the Pharaoh). They were plagues and now they’re “battle tested”. And
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
Exodus 11:5
Like with Amalek, not even the cows could catch a break! Pretty violent tradition.
Well, I have my own religion for me, but it’s personal and I don’t bring it up in conversations.
For me religions, outside of the personal level, is just a collection of tribal myths. This includes Judaism, Christianism, Hinduism, Islam, any religion, including mine. Religion for me is only valid as a personal experience.
If Torah said God told Jews to commit genocide, for me it means Jews committed it, and put the blame on some power none of them can question.
I’m just saying that for someone who can blame God for their acts can also blame victims for being genocided.
Gimme a break… A war with supposedly 20000 casualties in a highly dense country with 2 million people is NOT a genocide.
If Hamas and the palestinians want the war to be over, they could just give back the hostages they took on October 7…
Pretty simple really
Read the current ICJ express rulings. It’s plausibly a genocide, given politicians and citizen’s of Israel statements on this issue, and their actions
