Imagine a dichotomy so false that that a peaceful group with an earnestly held spiritual belief is somehow held responsible for a problem that hasn’t existed since 1946.
Read the wikipedia link. Free and subsidized lunch programs have been in place at a Federal level since 1946. They existed at a community level far before that into the 19th century. I can tell you from my own community that there are programs that extend beyond just this program as well when you factor in state-level support and charities.
No one said those programs don’t exist. It was pointed out that people want them not to. They’ve been whining about “handouts” including school lunches for decades. Why are you distracting from that fact?
Yeah so? Christianity if practiced in a Christlike way would be fine. We don’t need to relentlessly specify that today’s Christians are full of shit. We’re just calling them how they identify themselves
Most “Christians” today are secularists which is why they are so morally pliable. There is no right or wrong in the post-modern world only rabid pursuit of self. This naturally has consequences. The less Christian the United States becomes the more this will increase.
Dude you’re insane. Christianity is not even close to what’s held morality together. In fact it’s been used as an excuse to be horrifically shitty over and over. Crusades as one old example
Atheists /secularists do kind and selfless things all the time. And again, if Christians practice what they preach they’re good for the world, mostly.
it’s been used as an excuse to be horrifically shitty over and over
Just because something is used as an excuse to do something bad doesn’t mean that the actions that were taken are justified within Christianity. One has nothing to do with the other. I could identify as X and then do Y even if Y is explicitly forbidden by X. Does that mean that X is responsible for Y? No it doesn’t. The person is responsible. They are also a hypocrite.
Atheists /secularists do kind and selfless things all the time.
That’s fine but Atheists and Secularists borrow their understanding of good and evil from Christianity. There’s no objective moral standard for atheists and secularists.
Ah yes, Christianity, a peaceful group. Like when they peacefully did those Crusades or had that peaceful Spanish Inquisition or when they peacefully forcibly converted indigenous people the world over. And let’s not forget how they’re peacefully calling for the death penalty for queer people in Christian countries like Uganda…
Almost exclusively describing Catholic historical events and many of them in isolation. The Byzantine empire was under constant siege from pagans and Muslims for over a thousand years.
As far as murder of gays in Africa… pinning that on Christians is… ridiculous. Protections for homosexuals in historically Christian countries is far better than the alternatives. You act as if the animists or muslims in Uganda would be totally fine with homosexuality if it wasn’t for the oppressive Christians.
I can cherry pick the history of any group to show them in a bad light. I could say atheists killed 26 million in the holodomor or that secular humanists supported eugenics programs that inspired Hitler and started abortion centers to keep the population of undesirables down.
The reality is that human beings commit atrocities under many banners but a cursory look at Christian statements of faith and their actual scriptures will reveal that Christianity is radically peaceful and is the origin of any secular concepts concerning human protections in the Western world.
“Muslims also do bad things, because people everywhere do bad things, therefore the things Christians have done aren’t bad, and anyway, only some Christians have done them, therefore Christians are, in your words, a peaceful group” is the worst argument I’ve heard in a very long times.
People are inherently sinful. It’s a fact and also a fundamental belief of Christianity. As a result even if you give human beings a blueprint for a virtuous and peaceful life they will often ignore it or worse do something inherently sinful under the banner of Christendom. It’s human nature.
What I can say with confidence is that if a Christian lives according to doctrine they will live the best, most compassionate life possible. If they ignore it then they will live like anyone else. Mohammed bought & sold slaves. There is a difference.
Modern progessives have no idea how much of their worldview originates in Christianity. Go sincerely read the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ instead of pointing fingers as to why a fallen world is fallen. You will find teachings that champion the poor and down trodden in a way that is radical even today.
More importantly the lunch program has been in place for over 70 years and was created by an America far more Christian than it is now so this “meme” is crap.
Sin is a transgression against a specific god. Your god is not the god of the majority of the Earth’s population, so no, they are not inherently sinful just because you have declared them so and your
And I have read the New Testament. You read it. Especially John 3:18 where Jesus condemns anyone in the world who doesn’t worship him to eternal torture.
He also says to follow all of the abhorrent Old Testament laws. That’s what the “not one jot or tittle” passage is about.
Also, if you want to credit a school lunch program which is highly inadequate in feeding the most needy with Christianity, you’ll also have to credit the Holocaust, which was supported by a large number of German Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, who accepted the idea that their God wanted all the Jews dead.
Christians are not peaceful. They never have been. That’s just a lie. You can’t both do violent things and be peaceful.
I can’t wait for you to No True Scotsman away all of those Christians. I assume that will be your next step.
I can’t wait for you to No True Scotsman away all of those Christians
I’ve already explained that people are inherently sinful and capable of committing atrocities when they don’t follow Christ’s teachings so I’m not going to readdress this point.
you’ll also have to credit the Holocaust, which was supported by a large number of German Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, who accepted the idea that their God wanted all the Jews dead
I don’t have to accept anything much less that their hypothetical exegesis has no grounds in any of the church fathers or even modern theological opinion. Any Christian undertone in National Socialism was exactly that, an undertone. The Nazis leveraged any social identity that wasn’t nailed down and arced it towards a human agenda in this world. That’s not Christianity. That’s something else. If you disagree find the passage in the NT where Jesus says Christians should kill all Jews.
More importantly who defeated Hitler? Christians. In large part it was Orthodox Christians from Russia who were being terrorized by an atheist communist regime at home that was murdering their clergy, destroying churches, throwing their citizens in gulags and starving their population to death. They were forced into the battlefield, often without even a rifle, to fight the Germans and they succeeded. Europe has had 70+ years of relative peace since then.
He also says to follow all of the abhorrent Old Testament laws. That’s what the “not one jot or tittle” passage is about.
Wrong. Christians are bound by ten commandments and the other moral teachings but circumcision is no longer required, the Sabbath day was changed, dietary laws were relaxed to the point of not existing and most importantly salvation was extended to the gentiles and the brutal punishments of the Old Testament were done away with. Christians don’t pass their sins to a chicken and slaughter it instead we confess our sins to one another and seek absolution at the foot of the cross.
Sin is a transgression against a specific god. Your god is not the god of the majority of the Earth’s population, so no, they are not inherently sinful just because you have declared them so and your And I have read the New Testament. You read it. Especially John 3:18 where Jesus condemns anyone in the world who doesn’t worship him to eternal torture.
Sin is sin and there is only one God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. I don’t declare them as sinners, God does. You know that I’m going to say this since you’ve read New Testament. I’m Orthodox so we have a slightly different but much older, early Christian view of hell. Essentially hell and heaven are the same thing, an experience of God. For those that are sanctified the experience is heaven and for those that are not it is hell. Atheists always equate the heaven or hell debacle to some megalomania when in reality worshiping and serving God is objectively the best thing for man to do. It is the ultimate fulfillment of life on Earth to live in humility, generosity, compassion for fellow man and reverence before the Creator. Everything that is good flows from Him so by worshiping God in earnest man is capable of “Theosis” (e.g. partaking in the energies of God) To turn away from God is hell.
I gave you a logical statement. IF this THEN that. Christ created us with free will. I’m not somehow arguing from a losing position because Christians aren’t automatons. My opening statement was that all people are sinners.
The vast majority of the world disagrees with you
This has nothing to do with whether or not it is true.
You don’t get to push your ideas of sin on them.
I’m not pushing anything. I’m engaging with what I see as an unjust criticism of Christianity.
Imagine a dichotomy so false that that a peaceful group with an earnestly held spiritual belief is somehow held responsible for a problem that hasn’t existed since 1946.
I thought the claim was more that a lot of Christians oppose these programs, not that they don’t exist
A program like this exists and was put in place by an America that was far more Christian than it is now.
And? “Fake Christian” is a mouthful and obviously they would disagree that they’re frauds
I’m not sure what your comment has to do with my statement
Can you try making sense?
Read the wikipedia link. Free and subsidized lunch programs have been in place at a Federal level since 1946. They existed at a community level far before that into the 19th century. I can tell you from my own community that there are programs that extend beyond just this program as well when you factor in state-level support and charities.
No one said those programs don’t exist. It was pointed out that people want them not to. They’ve been whining about “handouts” including school lunches for decades. Why are you distracting from that fact?
In that case it sounds like the less Christian America becomes the more people feel it’s morally okay suspend programs that serve the underprivileged.
Yeah so? Christianity if practiced in a Christlike way would be fine. We don’t need to relentlessly specify that today’s Christians are full of shit. We’re just calling them how they identify themselves
Most “Christians” today are secularists which is why they are so morally pliable. There is no right or wrong in the post-modern world only rabid pursuit of self. This naturally has consequences. The less Christian the United States becomes the more this will increase.
Dude you’re insane. Christianity is not even close to what’s held morality together. In fact it’s been used as an excuse to be horrifically shitty over and over. Crusades as one old example
Atheists /secularists do kind and selfless things all the time. And again, if Christians practice what they preach they’re good for the world, mostly.
Just because something is used as an excuse to do something bad doesn’t mean that the actions that were taken are justified within Christianity. One has nothing to do with the other. I could identify as X and then do Y even if Y is explicitly forbidden by X. Does that mean that X is responsible for Y? No it doesn’t. The person is responsible. They are also a hypocrite.
That’s fine but Atheists and Secularists borrow their understanding of good and evil from Christianity. There’s no objective moral standard for atheists and secularists.
Christians are super prejudiced against poor and foreigners in the US.
That’s an unjustified claim.
Ah yes, Christianity, a peaceful group. Like when they peacefully did those Crusades or had that peaceful Spanish Inquisition or when they peacefully forcibly converted indigenous people the world over. And let’s not forget how they’re peacefully calling for the death penalty for queer people in Christian countries like Uganda…
Peace everywhere from peaceful Christians!
Almost exclusively describing Catholic historical events and many of them in isolation. The Byzantine empire was under constant siege from pagans and Muslims for over a thousand years.
As far as murder of gays in Africa… pinning that on Christians is… ridiculous. Protections for homosexuals in historically Christian countries is far better than the alternatives. You act as if the animists or muslims in Uganda would be totally fine with homosexuality if it wasn’t for the oppressive Christians.
I can cherry pick the history of any group to show them in a bad light. I could say atheists killed 26 million in the holodomor or that secular humanists supported eugenics programs that inspired Hitler and started abortion centers to keep the population of undesirables down.
The reality is that human beings commit atrocities under many banners but a cursory look at Christian statements of faith and their actual scriptures will reveal that Christianity is radically peaceful and is the origin of any secular concepts concerning human protections in the Western world.
“Muslims also do bad things, because people everywhere do bad things, therefore the things Christians have done aren’t bad, and anyway, only some Christians have done them, therefore Christians are, in your words, a peaceful group” is the worst argument I’ve heard in a very long times.
People are inherently sinful. It’s a fact and also a fundamental belief of Christianity. As a result even if you give human beings a blueprint for a virtuous and peaceful life they will often ignore it or worse do something inherently sinful under the banner of Christendom. It’s human nature.
What I can say with confidence is that if a Christian lives according to doctrine they will live the best, most compassionate life possible. If they ignore it then they will live like anyone else. Mohammed bought & sold slaves. There is a difference.
Modern progessives have no idea how much of their worldview originates in Christianity. Go sincerely read the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ instead of pointing fingers as to why a fallen world is fallen. You will find teachings that champion the poor and down trodden in a way that is radical even today.
More importantly the lunch program has been in place for over 70 years and was created by an America far more Christian than it is now so this “meme” is crap.
Sin is a transgression against a specific god. Your god is not the god of the majority of the Earth’s population, so no, they are not inherently sinful just because you have declared them so and your And I have read the New Testament. You read it. Especially John 3:18 where Jesus condemns anyone in the world who doesn’t worship him to eternal torture.
He also says to follow all of the abhorrent Old Testament laws. That’s what the “not one jot or tittle” passage is about.
Also, if you want to credit a school lunch program which is highly inadequate in feeding the most needy with Christianity, you’ll also have to credit the Holocaust, which was supported by a large number of German Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, who accepted the idea that their God wanted all the Jews dead.
Christians are not peaceful. They never have been. That’s just a lie. You can’t both do violent things and be peaceful.
I can’t wait for you to No True Scotsman away all of those Christians. I assume that will be your next step.
I’ve already explained that people are inherently sinful and capable of committing atrocities when they don’t follow Christ’s teachings so I’m not going to readdress this point.
I don’t have to accept anything much less that their hypothetical exegesis has no grounds in any of the church fathers or even modern theological opinion. Any Christian undertone in National Socialism was exactly that, an undertone. The Nazis leveraged any social identity that wasn’t nailed down and arced it towards a human agenda in this world. That’s not Christianity. That’s something else. If you disagree find the passage in the NT where Jesus says Christians should kill all Jews.
More importantly who defeated Hitler? Christians. In large part it was Orthodox Christians from Russia who were being terrorized by an atheist communist regime at home that was murdering their clergy, destroying churches, throwing their citizens in gulags and starving their population to death. They were forced into the battlefield, often without even a rifle, to fight the Germans and they succeeded. Europe has had 70+ years of relative peace since then.
Wrong. Christians are bound by ten commandments and the other moral teachings but circumcision is no longer required, the Sabbath day was changed, dietary laws were relaxed to the point of not existing and most importantly salvation was extended to the gentiles and the brutal punishments of the Old Testament were done away with. Christians don’t pass their sins to a chicken and slaughter it instead we confess our sins to one another and seek absolution at the foot of the cross.
Sin is sin and there is only one God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. I don’t declare them as sinners, God does. You know that I’m going to say this since you’ve read New Testament. I’m Orthodox so we have a slightly different but much older, early Christian view of hell. Essentially hell and heaven are the same thing, an experience of God. For those that are sanctified the experience is heaven and for those that are not it is hell. Atheists always equate the heaven or hell debacle to some megalomania when in reality worshiping and serving God is objectively the best thing for man to do. It is the ultimate fulfillment of life on Earth to live in humility, generosity, compassion for fellow man and reverence before the Creator. Everything that is good flows from Him so by worshiping God in earnest man is capable of “Theosis” (e.g. partaking in the energies of God) To turn away from God is hell.
The vast majority of the world disagrees with you. You don’t get to push your ideas of sin on them.
Also, I so called you’d go No True Scotsman.
I gave you a logical statement. IF this THEN that. Christ created us with free will. I’m not somehow arguing from a losing position because Christians aren’t automatons. My opening statement was that all people are sinners.
This has nothing to do with whether or not it is true.
I’m not pushing anything. I’m engaging with what I see as an unjust criticism of Christianity.