Hungarian leader praised Republican front-runner as a “man of peace.”
Donald Trump will totally stop funding Ukraine if he wins the U.S. election in November, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said following a meeting between the right-wing figureheads.
“He will not give a penny in the Ukraine-Russia war,” Orbán told Hungarian state media Sunday. “Therefore, the war will end, because it is obvious that Ukraine can not stand on its own feet.”
The longtime allies met last Friday at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, a summit which was lambasted by U.S. President Joe Biden.
Ahh yes. The same “peace” that would have fallen upon France and the UK if they just let Hitler take their land.
Worth remembering that a healthy chunk of the American business elite was more than ready to support a United Nazi Europe against the scourge of Stalin’s Soviet Union. Luminaries from Henry Ford to George Prescott Bush were nakedly advocating a US alliance with the Germans in an attempt to reassert western dominion over the globe, as the colonial settlement system was cracking up in the wake of WW1.
Guys like Trump and Orban aren’t anything new. A business-friendly globe-spanning conglomerate has been the end game for the PNAC crowd for a very long time.
Bush exponentially grew the family fortune, making broker fees, by funneling Americans’ investments in these great mining opportunities in Dachau and Auschwitz, where the labor was free!
Don’t forget FDR and Mussolini were mutual fans for a while
Italy was an Allied Power in WW1, and it was assumed (for at least a little while) that they were in the same block.
Allying with Hitler wasn’t the only problem with Mussolini…
I mean, we’re still fucking around in Ethiopia, standing up military juntas and extracting raw materials at sub-market rates.
One of the nicest things you could say about Mussolini was that he absolutely sucked at waging war. Wish more European despots could claim the same.
It’s important to remember that Hitler many times in speeches advocated invading Europe, I don’t watch many Putin speeches, but I don’t think he has done that with the US.
What does that even have to do with this thread?
That it’s not the same situation. Everyone agrees warmongering is bad, but appeasement was mocked not because it led to the annexation of the Czech Republic, but because it didn’t actually keep the UK and France out of a war. Hitler always wanted to invade France. This isn’t the same situation, because Putin isn’t repeatedly saying he wants to invade NATO, which Hitler did do referring to Poland and the USSR. Putin would likely continue to conquest, almost definitely into Georgia if it doesn’t fall in line, but there’s no reason to believe he would attack NATO
What on Earth are you on about? His propaganda stooges in the Russian media which he 100% controls says Russia will either nuke or invade NATO countries on a daily basis.
Source for them saying they intend to invade NATO after Ukraine? (I don’t mean in retaliation for crossing a “red line”)
Putins threats have been more direct:
https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-new-speech-ukraine-war-transnistria-nato
“We too have weapons that can hit targets on their territory. This really threatens a conflict with nuclear weapons, and thus the destruction of civilization,” he added.
That’s messed up, I didn’t know he threatened nuking directly, but I knew state tv had talked about it. But I see that as more a horrific threat than an actual goal- he might be way more crazy than I’m giving him credit for, but I just don’t see how he can actually see a nuclear war with NATO working out for him.
Comparing Putin to Hitler is absurd. Get better comparisons. Not every war is a threat to global peace, and acting like it is minimalizes the things that actually are. Just because you dislike that he’s trying to take a small sliver of Ukraine which voted to secede from Ukraine, doesn’t make him after global domination.
“Oh poor little Putin only wants to steal the entire land area of Greece and the homes of eleven million people”
Ahh yes I too take referenda run by occupying militaries very seriously
Whether a Hitler comparison is valid or not, your take here fucking sucks
Hitler also held referendums under military occupation.
Surprisingly easy to win an election with so many of your political opponents are held in prison camps or stuffed into holes in the ground.
Hell, I’m pretty sure that’s the Floridian model for democracy for the last 30 years.
He just wants access to the port in Sevastopol, he just wants Crimea, he just wants a bit of Eastern Ukraine…
Peace in our time!
While Chamberlain was applying appeasement, he was also rapidly upgrading the UK’s military capability.
He then fell on his own (proverbial) sword, to let Churchill take power.
Don’t compare these Muppets to a politician who actually did what he could to slow the wolves down enough to fight back.
You are quite right to raise this point.
Relevant wikipedia article for those who are unaware:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
The whole article is worth a read. TLDR: Chamberlain’s legacy and foreign policy has been (partially) re-evaluated.
Might be worth remembering that while Tories like Chamberlain were busy appeasing Hitler’s Germany, they were significantly less dovish towards Lenin’s Russia.
British Tories endorsed the White Army in its war to reclaim Moscow, following the 1917 revolution. Brits participated in the blockade of Russian ports and harassment of their officials through the collapse of the Tory government in 1921. And the Brits, with Churchill as their Chancellor of the Exchequer, conducted a kind of Cold War with the Soviets well into the 1930s. The Munich Agreement was, at least in part, an effort to contain the Communists of Czechoslovak Sudetenland.
So much of the Western treatment towards the Germans during the 30s was, at its heart, a response to the failures of the Romanov Government at the end of WW1. And there was significant speculation - particularly with the Soviet economic boom of pre-WW2 era - that they’d be the Big Bad all the western powers were going to have to rally against. So Germany was - both directly by US business and indirectly by British appeasement - propped up as a regional counterweight.
I am somewhat sympathetic to Chamberlain, but part of the reason he had to fall on the proverbial sword was because he didn’t take proper steps early enough in the first place. Still, I do agree with the sentiment that he deserves a lot more respect. Especially for his actions teeing up Churchill
Comparing Hitler to Napoleon is absurd. Get better comparisons. Not every war is a threat to global peace, and acting like it is minimalizes the things that actually are. Just because you dislike that he is trying to take a small sliver of Czechoslovakia which voted to secede from Czechoslovakia, doesn’t make him after global domination.
People like you 90 years ago.
Those people were wrong, but I’m right. Most people who say what I did are right. You’re leaving out the many, many times in history a country did not try to take over the world after winning a war.
This asshole is a troll. Don’t feed him.
You can say what you like about my views, but I do believe them. Y’all are way too quick to deflecting. Why do you need to reflect if I’m so obviously wrong?
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Nazi.
Typical contrarian, get better at trolling 😎
Typical lib, deflecting all criticism with accusations of trolling. Or better, call me a Russian agent, that’ll prove you’re right.
I don’t have to prove I’m right.
this is a forum for discussion, not a debate stage you stooge.
That can’t be true, you sure seemed to be on a debate stage when you were looking for any reason at all to dismiss me entirely.
Please move your account to hexbear (which most of us have already blocked) so we don’t have to listen to Russian propaganda talking points on the civilised side of Lemmy. I find it straining to block individual users.
You’re saying that a primarily American community, centered around a podcast run by 3-4 Americans, is Russian propaganda? C’mon bro, listen to yourself.
“Why won’t you debate me about why the earth is flat?! Why do you need to deflect if I’m so obviously wrong?”
The answer, by the way? Because it’s obvious trying to have a reasonable discussion with you is a waste of time and energy. Consider this reply a freebie.
Oh, and I highly suggest you don’t conflate “we shouldn’t let Putin invade even a little bit of land” with “being a lib”. Not exactly a great look for liberal opposition if you do that.
Comparing it to a flat earth theory is ridiculous, it is entirely possible that the popular opinion, especially among Americans, is wrong. American media has historically been quite unreliable about foreign affairs, often intentionally.
lemmy.ml yet again showing they’re a clownshow of tankie nonsense.
Tankies support Putin?
Tankies believe whatever you want them to believe in the moment, it’s essentially the liberal version of Woke.
There’s a substantial number of them on the Fediverse, particularly on a couple of specific large instances. The logic goes that the USA and its allies are the ultimate evil maintaining capitalism’s grip on the world, and anything that goes against that is therefore better even if it’s another capitalist country. Things like Ukraine getting invaded are just unfortunate victims in the crossfire, or Ukraine is actually as evil as Putin says it is, or better yet it was actually NATO’s fault all along for provoking Russia
I know they’re around for sure just wasn’t clear on the connection there. Appreciate it!
He’s not after “a small sliver of Ukraine”, he wants ALL of Ukraine.
That’s not what he’s fighting a war over. Has he taken any land that wasn’t part of the initial declaration? I see zero reason to think that what he has said and which he is currently doing are lies.
Putin has said repeatedly that Ukrainians and Russians are “one people” and a separate Ukraine doesn’t really exist. It seems you haven’t been paying attention.
The Kremlin posted propaganda piece, written by Putin, doesn’t seem to be loading for me, but there’s a Wiki on it here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians
“Putin openly questions the legitimacy of Ukraine’s contemporary borders.[9] According to Putin, the modern-day Ukraine occupies historically Russian lands,[9] and is an “anti-Russia project” created by external forces since the seventeenth century, and of administrative and political decisions made during the Soviet Union[5] (a BBC article traced the term “anti-Russia project” to some Russian conspiratorial writing of 2011–13).[10] He also discusses the Russo-Ukrainian War, maintaining that “Kiev simply does not need Donbas”.[11]”
Which is, of course, nonsense.
https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/ukraine-history-fact-checking-putin-513812/
https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/russia-and-ukraine-one-people-putin-claims
Not for lack of trying though.
He’s been doing it overly since Georgia during the Bush administration. Shutup Nazi.
That does t make any sense, Russians are historically the most anti Nazi country.
Exhibited by all the black, Jewish, openly queer, etc, people walking about town safely all day? “But muh talking points on my troll farm faq pdf from corporate!”
Exhibited by the fact that they fucking murdered almost all of them. Meanwhile America was handing them money left and right.
So it’s anti Nazi to genocide the other? Then sure, you’re the biggest anti Nazis. Just shut the fuck up anti Nazi.
It’s anti Nazi to murder Nazis. Russia did that the most, and this they are the most anti Nazi country. Are you trying to read it as that stupid “antifa are fascists” BS that used to get spewed by morons?
I don’t know why I’m engaging your bad faith bullshit but here goes. Russia was allied with Nazi Germany the majority of the invasion and conquering of the West. Only after Germany betrayed Russia did they start killing Nazis, out of necessity… most of which did the work themselves by freezing half to death. And that was 80 years ago. Today, they’re committing genocide, kidnapping children, leveling civilian cities, threatening nuclear war. Cut. The. Shit.
Lmao sure, kid.
I’m sorry but are you seriously suggesting that the invasion of Ukraine isn’t a threat to global peace?
I can’t take you seriously mate. You desperately need to read non-Kremlin talking points.
It’s a threat to regional peace, sure. But why would it be a threat globally? I just don’t believe Russia has their eyes set on anything beyond maybe half of Ukraine at most. And if they did make moves that disagree with that, the west is more than capable of shutting it down. That part of the world is controlled by Russia and China, let them figure it out. I don’t really see why I as an American should care if Russia wins the war.
if America keeps getting involved in the east, why shouldn’t China decide to foot the bill for a massive uprising by Mexico to take back Texas, for instance? Hell, Texas is already talking about seceding, which is exactly what Donetsk and the other place did in Ukraine. World peace means the big dogs not getting involved with each other. We can see in both world wars what happens when they do.
Because the region under threat will expand and expand if Putin doesn’t feel like there are any barriers. Why would he? This is his third invasion.
Based on what? Where is this figure coming from? And why is absorbing half of a sovereign nation acceptable to you?
Have you not seen the impact it’s had on the world economy and, more specifically, natural gas? We are impacted whether we like it or not. Instability manufactured by a fascist invading his neighbor for such an absurd, disingenuous excuse as “de-nazification” unfortunately involves a lot of the world when it disrupts/impacts a substantial portion of the global energy supply. Like do you actually know what is happening? This isn’t some mystical foreign land so far away it doesn’t impact us. Look at your energy bill, it’s impacting you right now. We live in a global economy and Putin is not going to stop with Ukraine.
I don’t believe the de-nazification crap at all, but I believe he just wants control of half of Ukraine, maybe all of it if things go really well. It’s strategically important, has a ton of ports, and prevents America getting control first via NATO. If I were him I can certainly believe that’s what I’d want for Russia. I assume he’s trying to “Make Russia Great Again”, and last time they were great, they had Ukraine.
Which 3 invasions are you referring to? All I know of is the war for Crimea. Are you calling the war for Donetsk and Donbas 2 more invasions? Cause it’s really the same war, IMO.
As far as I can tell, the main impact it’s having on me is that America is sending all my tax money to them, which helps get our oligarchs richer, and everybody else poorer. Theoretically, we could be spending that on infrastructure and Medicaid for all.
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Then why should you believe anything he says or promises?
Again based on what?
I believe him when what he is saying lines up with what I expect him to do. Same with Donald Trump. Trump isn’t literally always lying, after all. I believe that this is the approach Putin is taking on Ukraine based on 3 points:
He says so. Essentially a prerequisite in this case. Though in this case he’s not literally saying so, it’s just the subtext behind his obvious lie about Nazis.
His actions don’t seem to have an ulterior motive beyond his stated ones, as far as the war goes. Are there any meaningful Russian troops movements anywhere besides Ukraine that I’ve missed? Assuming not, that points pretty strongly to him not lying.
If I were the leader of Russia, I can certainly imagine that a goal of mine is to reunite the USSR as Russia, which is headlined by the need to control Ukraine again. Ukraine is very meaningful both strategically and economically, providing many warm water ports. And I would also say it’s probably overestimating to claim he even wants all of Ukraine, based on, y’know, what Russia has literally been doing, but I certainly don’t disbelieve Putin wants the whole thing.
You can’t disbelieve people based only on who they are, it’s much easier to simply consider what makes logical sense for them to do, and cross check it with what they’ve said about it.