- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.org
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.org
The White House statement comes after a week of frantic negotiations in the Senate.
President Joe Biden on Friday urged Congress to pass a bipartisan bill to address the immigration crisis at the nation’s southern border, saying he would shut down the border the day the bill became law.
“What’s been negotiated would — if passed into law — be the toughest and fairest set of reforms to secure the border we’ve ever had in our country,” Biden said in a statement. “It would give me, as President, a new emergency authority to shut down the border when it becomes overwhelmed. And if given that authority, I would use it the day I sign the bill into law.”
Biden’s Friday evening statement resembles a ramping up in rhetoric for the administration, placing the president philosophically in the camp arguing that the border may hit a point where closure is needed. The White House’s decision to have Biden weigh in also speaks to the delicate nature of the dealmaking, and the urgency facing his administration to take action on the border — particularly during an election year, when Republicans have used the issue to rally their base.
The president is also daring Republicans to reject the deal as it faces a make-or-break moment amid GOP fissures.
What a stupid thing to focus on. I hate that the southern border is even a topic people bring up. It’s a completely made up problem.
B-but scawwy foreigners!
75% of this country thinks the border is in crisis. I fucking hate it.
If we had a political party with the courage to say “It’s not a crisis, quit falling for bullshit” that number would go down
Not by much, I’d wager. Democrats don’t tend to sway their opinions much when the party takes a different line than the majority Dem opinion, and Republicans are too racist to change their views on the border.
It would be nice to have a voice of sanity in the fucking country, though.
A majority of Democratic voters in the 40s and 50s thought segregation was a state issue the federal government should stay out of because they didn’t want the controversy, but some Democratic leaders saw it differently, and thank goodness they did because without them pushing the issue along with civil rights activists we never would have gotten (among other things) a voting rights act.
It wouldn’t just be nice to have a voice of sanity, it’s the only way this issue is getting any better imo
While Truman’s advocacy of civil rights in the '48 platform is definitely pivotal in terms of effecting policy, I would raise the question as to how much of the change in opinions was due to the party tack, and how much was due to the ongoing and revitalized post-WW2 civil rights movement and increasing integration and civic participation of liberal blocs in the north.
I suppose it’s academic in the end. I would love for the Dem party to take up the issue, like I said. It’s just a ‘chicken or the egg’ question.
I think the border is in crisis. Our shitty policies make it incredibly and unnecessarily difficult for people to enter the country seeking asylum or a legal means of getting citizenship. I would say the camps of people stuck on the other side of the border, prey to criminals who would rape, steal, and murder (not to mention the asylum-seekers vulnerable to those they are seeking asylum from) are the biggest part of that crisis.
So I’m not sure if I’d be considered part of that 75%, because my solution is to make the system more efficient in letting people in and started with paths to citizenship. Then there wouldn’t be masses of people at the border.
Yeah, but when most people say “Border crisis”, they don’t mean “Holy shit refugees are in inhumane conditions, we need to help them”, they mean “I’m scared that there are too many brown people coming into MY good, white, Christian country!”
Oh, no, definitely agree, that’s why I say I’m not really what one would include in that 75%.
The legislation had funding for more staff and judges to be able to process asylum requests faster. The GOP got some stupid shit in there that probably wouldn’t hold up in court (typical tough guy posturing shit), but there were some good things in there too.
My understanding is that the US has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world. Is that not the case?
If other countries didn’t have immigration standards, I’d be European by now…
Heck most Americans don’t know that before the end of Roe V. Wade America had one of the most liberal Abortion Policies in the world… the amount of Pro-Choicers fighting 20 week bans who’s heads would explode if they ever learned 6 week bans was the norm for most of the developed world.
No no, scary brown people
They’re perfectly fine with white foreigners that either speak English or have enough money/power they don’t care.
No one ever has a problem with the Canadian Immigrants, even though Ted Cruz did more wrong for this nation than Jose wokring under the table at the farms for under minimum wage
Every 2 years like fucking clockwork there’s a “border crisis” to waste time and energy on, which promptly disappears from public consciousness and media the day after the election. It’s tiring
Remember how Democrats losing a mid-term was all that was needed to cure every case of Ebola in the United States?
Which consisted of… that one nurse Chris Christie kidnapped and kept insisting had Ebola…
Its an election year so theres magically another immigrant surge that needs to be fixed.
According to the DHS,
I don’t have the numbers for all of 2023 in front of me but they’re higher than the ones for 2022. (And keep in mind that not everyone crossing the border files an asylum application.)
Hundreds of thousands more people than normal are entering across the border, and existing systems for accommodating them are overwhelmed. Maybe the best solution is not closing the border, but thinking that there is no problem is inconsistent with reality.
Yeah it sounds like we need to better fund our asylum program.
Crazy idea, but we all came to this country as immigrants, and wiped out most of the population that was already here. Seems a little ironic to me that we’re now concerned about who can and can’t live here.
I live in New York City, where as of the beginning of December 2023,
That’s about 2% of the population of the city. The ones still in shelters have more than doubled the city’s homeless population. If we stopped being concerned about these people then they would be outside without food and shelter, and it gets quite cold around here. However, being concerned about them is projected to cost the city more than ten billion dollars over the next three years, which is a lot of money even for a city this big.
Something needs to be done at the federal level. Right now the federal government is letting a lot of people in and then doing very little to take care of them once they’re in the country, and that’s not working.
I agree, we should be helping people that come into this country seeking refuge from war, and shitty economic conditions in their own countries, not demonizing them.
We aren’t doing that, we are instead using them as political pawns for browny points with each political parties respective base. Instead of seeing them as people.
so you agree this is really just a funding issue at the federal level?
youre of course pushing your representatives to increase funding for all immigration programs, right?
There are two separate questions here.
Do I think this could be solved with (much) more funding at the federal level? Yes, that’s one way to do it, and better than letting people in without allocating such funding.
Do I think that’s the ideal solution? No, I don’t think the USA should be letting in everyone who crosses the border, with little to no screening. There are many people who have applied through official channels and waited for many years; let them in first rather than rewarding the ones who skip the line.
(Australia has a policy that asylum seekers who arrive without a visa will be sheltered in refugee camps until it is safe for them to leave, but they will not be allowed to move freely in the country or given any more opportunities to become permanent residents than they would have had if they applied for a visa. I think something like that may be a good idea.)
both things here are resolved with solid immigration funding.
yep, we should be letting Everyone… at least to the door, where we can then screen them. and then take appropriate action.
you do have a point that the immigration process is broken. that it takes a decade to get in is absolutely due to racism and conservative policies, which requires more than funding… it would take compassionate politicians.
I’m an immigrant myself. I came here with a refugee visa when I was a child, and that was extremely fortunate for me - the place where I was born is now a war zone. I’m a strong supporter of allowing in the people who have applied, passed all the checks, and waited patiently. It’s a win-win situation, good for the immigrants and good for this country. I’m saying that so you can understand where I’m coming from. I’m not afraid of or hostile to immigrants, I just want the current, broken system fixed in a way that’s fair to the people who are trying to come here legally. I don’t see that happening soon.
“Fuck you, I got mine”
The conservative motto.
sounds like we need to floood our immigration system with cash so we can finally help all those human beings. you want to help human beings, right?
If we had open borders, I bet 99% of Americans wouldn’t even notice a change in their day-to-day life. Old peoples’ obsession with the border is tiring as fuck. I just don’t understand any they care so much about something that doesn’t affect them, other than to simply be racist.
RIP nuked threads?
Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan has been doing some great pieces lately including a couple good ones on the border recently. It’s a serious issue for both sides of the political spectrum. Hence the point of the OP article.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQ4-VNaG3s - Migrant Detention Camp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZWVQuqx0o - Arizona Border Crisis
This is not what I hear from people I know who are working here in Texas in the RGV. Many communities down there are overwhelmed with people. Politically, there is a real risk that what has been a Democratic stronghold in Texas is moving to the right based on just this one issue. Either way, there is legitimately a crisis happening down there
deleted by creator
if we had solid immigration policies, and a path for immigration through the southern border, and we actually staffed/supported it financially you wouldnt see all this
but we dont
we dont manage immigrants with the expectation they are going to come in and become citizens, and help them do so. racists are so hard set against helping people enter this country successfully it creates the environment you describe.
if you want to solve for what youre afraid of; push for easier immigration. push for immigration centers all along the border. push for services to help relocate recent immigrants.
this could all easily be accomplished.
we dont because > 50% of the country are fucking racist
No argument here with anything you just said, but it also doesn’t contradict anything I said. It’s easy to feel angry about our government’s failures and it’s easy to imagine ideal solutions. What’s a lot more difficult is accepting the reality of where we are right now and taking concrete steps toward making things better in the face of a very influential right-wing political and media machine that opposes all solutions. I think Biden is doing a fantastic job navigating this problem
Sure buddy, immigrants are super scary…
Where did you get that immigrants are scary from anything I said? I said there’s too many people for the small communities along the Rio Grande Valley to handle
Gee, maybe voting for small government Republicans for decades wasn’t such a great idea? I’d love for the federal government to be doing more to provide social services down there but you should be honest about how those communities all got so fragile to begin with and take your problems to the voters of Texas.
I’m really trying to understand your point in regards to what I said above
Those small communities are only unable to handle things because they have massively underfunded all their government agencies and social services. If the voters of Texas hadn’t sent budget busting morons to the state legislature for decades they wouldn’t be in this situation.
You don’t know that. Any community would face some challenges with a sudden influx of people. And money is not infinite. This is just slinging vitriol around.
If it were really a fucking crisis, Republicans wouldn’t be torpedoing the bill that would presumably fix the problem. It’s a political game and it always has been. Biden threatening to shut down the border only serves to take away the conservative’s political cudgel, something that they’re desperately going to need if they want voter turnout in November.
For as long as I’ve been alive, there’s been an “immigration issue” or “border crisis”. For as long as this country has been a country xenophobes have made the argument that immigration itself is a problem.
This.
And when Texas does anything to move immigrants the enlightened left grows self-righteous about how the immigrants are supposed to be cared for where they are.
Then you widely hear a sentiment: “Bussing immigrants in any form is obviously the result of lies and subterfuge”. Why else would they get on a bus to a sanctuary city/state?
The left needs to do some soul searching. If having a dozen busses show up gets you really bothered, then you’re less tolerant than you’re expecting Texas to be.
I’m solidly on the left. Pretty far along that spectrum. I’m far enough I don’t mind busses, especially if coordinated. But we cannot have an open border of any kind and no willingness to help. It’s asinine.
I have never heard this argument, personally. Me and my enlightened left homies think sharing the burden across cities and states is necessary, but that lying to people and doing it with zero planning or notice is abhorrent
Mobile isn’t allowing me to link, but I’d submit I have a reply (not yours) that starts to hit the notes I mentioned.
Lemmy, a known left haven, gets very upset about immigrants not being treated well. I’m good with that.
When the insistence that the good treatment happen elsewhere, it looks damn foolish.
Edit to add: in the past, articles about bussing here insistently called human trafficking and the allegation was solidly that immigrants were being herded or lied to to get them on busses.
Haven’t figured out how to copy/paste on mobile yet? Really?
this is objectively false. bussing immigrants around the country and then calling out unprepared states does not count
When I see an article about busses bringing immigrants, I have often found a high ranked comment about human trafficking and alleging this was all done with lies. That the bussing is immoral.
That was about a month ago.
I took down votes then, too. Except then my point was that if I was an immigrant one of the last places I’d want to remain is south Texas. Give me that bus ticket to a blue state.
It just looked like resentment that they were arriving in blue states and sanctuary cities. The same places that have long described immigrants as net positives.
Edit: “objectively false” when I have the conversation history. This is why I point to the undeserved certainty to lemmy throws around on topics.
I think it’s more that they’re being dropped off with no communication, coordination, planning, or notice at all. Just random bus loads of immigrants arriving in the night thinking there will be resources there to help them.
Oh, and then you get the obvious PR moves like bus loads showing up unannounced at the Vice President’s official residence in the middle of the night during a time where the temperatures were dangerously low. It’s sick – just using immigrants as a PR stunt to “own the libs.”
Significant portions of those involved on the thread were sure it was human trafficking. Spoke and voted that way.
I’m not saying the stunt portion of bussing is okay. But finding a term that diminishes the agency of immigrants and makes their appearance in blue areas the act of unlawful human trafficking (a specific and high bar to cross)… It just seemed convenient that everything about the arrival of immigrants was wrong.
I work with immigrants. They’re smart, capable and just want a shot at the dream. I’m not against immigration. I’m against lemmy seeming to find convenient reasons why it’s okay to happen until it happens nearby.
Those threads are not hard to find.
Texas is not responsible to house every immigrant that crosses the border. You didn’t say it, but others imply it.
The bussing is immoral when they’re bussed into a town that isn’t expecting them and just dropped off. If Texas wants to coordinate the bussing with the destination cities/towns, fine do that. I have no problem with that. But when people are carted to a fucking Chicago suburb with no cold weather clothing in the dead of winter and just dropped the fuck off, how can you see that as anything but immoral?
I’ve never said that all conditions of the bussing are moral. Only that bussing itself isn’t immoral. Or human trafficking (as is often posited).
I’ve specifically said the stunt part isn’t cool. The bussing part… Can be.
I mostly agree with you, but it’s libs/Dems, not the left.
Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan has been doing some great pieces lately including a couple good ones on the border recently.
As others have said, border control issues are a serious problem on either political spectrum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQ4-VNaG3s - Migrant Detention Camp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZWVQuqx0o - Arizona Border Crisis
Was going to post these. Really loving the Channel 5 content these days.
Do we not like Channel 5 or something? I find their interviews interesting most of the time.
If it challenges the narrative on Lemmy, it gets downvoted.
The flood of immigrants crossing the southern border has been deemed a non issue by the liberal hivemind, and any evidence or arguments to the contrary will not be tolerated.
I’m just surprised because I feel like liberals generally care about the welfare of the people coming theough. The “flood of immigrants” isn’t a problem. The fact that we don’t devote enough resources into processing them and making sure they are safe/have a place to go is the problem in my view (and I would argue that’s generally the consensus with most of the left).
You want a better life? You’re welcome here. We’re the wealthiest country in human history. There’s plenty of room on this boat. We just need a significantly better onboarding system and to stop looking at immigrants as invaders. They’re here for the exact same reasons. We should be jumping to help them. That’s what being an American should be.
Here’s the thing. My wife originally came to the US on a tourist visa. She went through a long process to get that visa. I am concerned by the idea of people walking into the country without any screening whatsoever.
I believe the majority of these immigrants are fine people. But with poverty comes crime, often out of necessity. And when these individuals enter the country illegally, it means they don’t have working papers. Depending on where they go, they won’t have driver’s licenses or insurance. They likely won’t have health insurance. Many won’t be paying taxes out of fear of deportation, and because they can get away with it. I’m not generalizing here - I have known many good people in this exact situation, and I know the challenges that come with being undocumented.
My wife would tell you that she’s concerned with who may be coming over that border. I am concerned about what comes with a flood of persons who are destined to be stuck in the lower class.
These are not unfair or unreasonable concerns. Look at the level of gang violence in Mexico. Nobody else is concerned that these persons can walk into the US without question? Nobody is thinking about what these people will do once here? I didn’t even touch on what working conditions look like, or housing, for undocumented immigrants.
The people espousing that the open border is a non issue are living in a fairy tale with no regard for long term implications or the human element of what’s happening here
Is there actually a large cohort of people that think we should have a completely open border with no screening process? I’ve never seen that advocated for outside of those who want to completely abolish Nation-States and that’s definitely not a large group.
Devote proper resources to screen, process, and take care of these people. We aren’t doing that.
On Lemmy, absolutely.
And, I mean look at the comments in general. Whenever this topic comes up people call it a non-issue, people say the issue doesn’t exist, people say who cares if people are coming over the border, you have people citing studies showing illegal immigrant populations are generally less violent than citizens. People want to justify the relative inaction of Biden. Now, I voted for the man, but this is absolutely disgusting.
Now he’s claiming he doesn’t have authority to act. I’m sorry, but at this point I’ve seen more than enough in the way of arguments for the White House already having the necessary powers to secure the border. There has never been a point in Biden’s presidency where he did not have the authority to take the necessary action in securing the border.
So yes, I do not believe we should have a wide open border that is a literal free-for-all like we have at this exact moment. I agree, we should be devoting proper resources to screen, process, and take care of the people that want to come into the country. We should be doing this the right way.
You don’t live anywhere near the border, do you?
Your anecdotes don’t mean shit when put up against statistics.
You believe in lies.
… spoken like someone who has never actually spent time around the border for any real period of time.
Just because the GOP is wrong in how they want to approach the issue, doesn’t mean the problems aren’t real.
I lived in New Mexico for most of my childhood, but thanks for the condescending comment.
What? 40 years ago? Because I find it pretty absurd that anyone who’s spent anytime there since even the Obama administration, would not understand, or have witnessed, the fact that there has been a consistent humanitarian crisis at the border for quite some time.
It ebbs and flows, sure, but it’s definitely been flowing pretty heavy for many years straight now.
Sure, it’s only a huge issue every couple of years around election time too. So convenient.
Right, like I said, you don’t live anywhere near the southwest. Because when the issue doesn’t get press coverage, it’s not happening in your version of reality.
It’s been year-round issue for quite some time, but it only gets national coverage around elections for obvious reasons.
If your reality does not conform to the desired lemmy narrative, it is rejected with down votes. Your politics won’t matter, it’s not the truth that’s desired.
Sounds weird, but on this topic and a few others, that’s how it works. It’s uncanny.
Sorry people are rejecting the message.
Not sure about any “Lemmy narrative”, more like certain boards have a dominant demographic or beliefs. Clearly, the group here hasn’t lived anywhere near the southern border, or at least not in the past decade.
I’m not even talking politics, I just mean the objective fact that there is, and has been, a humanitarian crisis there, and it will still be there after the election. But, it’ll go back to being out of sight, out of mind, for them, therefore it will cease to exist.
Politics has to play a part in how it’s addressed, but it shouldn’t be used to decide if it’s real, or not. I realize you know that, this is more for the benefit of anyone else who stumbles this far down the thread.
6 million illegals in 3 years. Its a problem. Hell a couple thousand caused problems for NYC. How do tiny border towns stand a chance?
Stand a chance to what?
Maintain infrastructure, pay for roads that can handle the traffic, pay for public schools that can handle the masses, pay for enough fire fighters and trucks, shit like that, and ramp up in the time frame of 3 years
That’s what taxes are for. Which undocumented immigrants pay.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946
I’m having a hard time believing that undocumented immigrants pay all their taxes. You can say they pay some for sure, since there’s no way they don’t pay sales tax and such. Wouldn’t undocumented immigrants not have to pay the largest tax most folks have to pay, though, since they likely wouldn’t be paying income tax? I suppose if they once held a work visa or whatever, and had it expire, and they never relocated or changed jobs somehow, they’d still be paying their income tax, but I feel like that’d be rare, unless workplaces have no idea when your visa expires, and isn’t required to fire you when they find out.
I wish that article wasn’t about some random twitter post, and had more information in it. Maybe then they would have explained this. I would have assumed the tweet was BS the moment they said those folks don’t have to pay rent. Like… where did the person who believed that tweet think those fellas lived?
Their taxes are taken out of their paychecks like everyone else. They just don’t get refunds and they don’t get to apply for social security or medicare or, in most states, even medicaid. That means that they get very little back for what they give.
And if you have a problem with people not paying their fair share of taxes, start with Elon Musk, not some guy who’s picking fruit.
You’re assuming they receive paychecks at all, though. All undocumented immigrants I’ve known the situations of in my time (which is very few mind you, so it’s possible that this is not the norm) got paid in cash for the work they did, instead of getting a check. And I find it unlikely that the business or person paying them in cash under the table would have gone and paid their income tax for them and announced “These are the taxes the illegal immigrants I hire are paying!” and I even more doubt that the folks who received the funds paid their income tax on their own, since their employers were already playing on their fears of being discovered by the government to pay them lower wages than the market would normally accept (I want to say it was below the federal minimum at the time).
While I agree that we should totally be getting more taxes from rich folks. It’s not really relevant to the current discussion about the taxes paid by undocumented immigrants. That said, I’m not super concerned about undocumented immigrants paying income tax, since it’s really the fellas who employ them that are the problem. I was only mentioning it because I was curious as to how true what that article was saying really was, since it did not match my experiences.
The first article I linked to shows they do indeed pay payroll taxes. So your personal anecdote does not trump the numbers.
The vast, overwhelming majority, of undocumented immigrants I know, and I know a lot in my trade, receive a paycheck just like everyone else. And yes, payroll taxes are deducted from that check, just like everyone else’s.
They pay sales taxes, sure. But they don’t pay income or property taxes, not without an SSN. (Texas does not have an income tax, but has property taxes. The Feds have an income tax. Don’t be pedantic)
Sorry… so you’re blaming immigrants for the fact that Texas’ tax regulations are severely fucked up?
Maybe Texas shouldn’t cater so much of their tax code to rich people? Shouldn’t that be the issue?
How is having property tax but not income tax fucked up? How does it cater to rich people, any more than having income tax?
https://www.chron.com/politics/article/Texas-income-tax-property-laws-business-owners-16610385.php
https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/texas-wealth-tax-ban-was-a-mistake-other-states-shouldnt-repeat
https://itep.org/whopays/texas/
But sure, it’s immigrants that are the tax burden.
How exactly are you proposing that these people don’t pay property tax?
I would also wager that the amount of unreported tip income is just as large a problem as undocumented workers from a tax standpoint.
Undocumented immigrants pay income tax if they use someone else’s SSN or even without an SSN by using an ITIN
So you’re suggesting that illegal immigrants should steal identities to pay taxes?
No bud, we’re suggesting that they already do, because they’re given no other option.
No, he’s suggesting that your original statement (the one actually being discussed) is wrong. No one suggested that immigrants SHOULD do anything, especially identity theft. Your whataboutism has no power here. Stop embarrassing yourself.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Taxes pay for all of those things. They don’t just crumble to dust in the proximity of non-citizens.
They just want to have a lame excuse to be racist. That’s all this is.
You’re forgetting that the entire reason why so many people enter illegally* is because it’s next to impossible to enter legally unkess you have lots of connections in the US. Your average foreigner doesn’t stand a chance.
Don’t want 6 million people to enter illegally? Make it easier to enter legally. It’s that simple, yet people like you will never understand that. “Securing the border” only makes the problem worse. We should be opening it instead.
493,000 immigrant visas were given out in 2022. It’s extremely easy to enter, just too many too quick, and y’all have to wait your turn.
Eh, but how much of that is tourist visas. And where are they coming from.
I’m of the opinion that an open border with Mexico is an issue. Which just should not be controversial.
But I’m also married to someone who entered with a tourism visa. Legal immigration is nearly impossible in the US. There are very very few options for a person to enter the country and be on a path to a green card. Saying otherwise is purely ignorant.
Non immigrant visas are up to 6.8 million in 2022.
You should look at what the requirements look like for an immigrant Visa. The average person in South America does not have the ability to satisfy those requirements. But that doesn’t mean they are unable to become a valuable and contributing member of society.
I know people in the US that came here illegally and have gone on to become business owners. But only because they were able to meet and marry a US citizen.
There needs to be a legal path to entry. And we should be stopping the flood of people coming over the border at the same time.
We can only take so many, so quickly. What we’re doing now is completely unsustainable.
So why not select for the best and brightest?
People who work highly educated or skilled jobs don’t actually want the US to allow a bunch of immigrants to come and compete with them. That’s the situation with tech workers and H1B visas. Jobs going unfilled right now are not the ones worked by the best and brightest or most highly educated…
I can’t agree with that. It’s only unsustainable because we have a flood of immigrants coming over the border and a catch-and-release program.
And my wife has a PhD, of which she did a year in the US. Not in something useless like poetry, but in meteorology. She did not have the connections to get a US sponsorship from an employer. So without knowing someone, she was without options.
I know immigrants who have found their way into the US legally, and overstayed. They have gone on to become business owners, or successful in their respective fields. The issue with your assumption is that you think we’re actually effective at selecting the best and brightest.
The reality is that if we secured our borders, we wouldn’t be overwhelmed.