Note: This is sure as shit not meant to downplay or deny Israel’s ongoing genocide. Only to point out the absurdity of some online leftists in simping for Hamas and expressing disbelief that far-right theocrats with a history of committing terrible crimes would commit terrible crimes.
I saw that, which is why I didn’t label the character “OP.” It was intended more of a response in general, not a specific criticism of you.
Ah.
In my view it’s rare that anyone really ‘simps for Hamas’, they are the leading militant group in Gaza opposing the Israeli state though so if there are victories against IDF forces it’s usually going to be under that umbrella, and praising a victory against IDF is not the same as praising past terror attacks. I’ve never heard anyone confused that they are communist. There are Marxist-Leninist groups in Palestine though, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
What are you talking about? It is a conflict between two parties and everybody knows that things have to be black and white!!
I demand to know which of the two are the good guys!
By creating and attacking a strawman here you’re distracting from the important points. Hamas is a direct response to the oppression of the Palestinian people by Israel. It’s classic blowback and communists are just pointing out the obvious here. You can disagree that Hamas is deserving of critical support in the context of the current conflict, but if you ignore the conditions that led to Oct 7th and the fallout since you are taking the wrong lesson away from this issue and someday will be found on the wrong side of history.
You also have to recognize that there’s no line between Palestinians and Hamas. I don’t mean that it’s hard to find. I mean there isn’t one.
72% of Palestinians believe the attack on Israel was “correct”. And presumably some of the remainder are smart enough to not admit to that.
Hamas still enjoys wide, wide support among Palestinians, for some valid reasons.
Its warcriminals fighting warcriminals, change my mind.
The only thing I can say is that both have no problem with harming combatants and civilians alike, but one side is disproportionately killing civilians with the resources at their disposal (Israel) just because they can.
I’m not convinced that Hamas wouldn’t do the same if the tables were turned, but one side needs to be better if we’re ever to see an end to this conflict.
Yeah. Hamas doesn’t have any moral high ground, but the one that needs to be restrained at this moment in time is Israel.
People are also more eager to criticise Israel because Hamas is just a terrorist organisation and they hold Israel to a higher standard.
I guess the Israeli government isn’t happy about being treated as more than a terrorist organisation?
I always thought the IDF was supposed to be super skilled and tactical. I expected surgical strikes to take out terrorists and minimize civilian casualties. They had a reputation for strength.
Turns out they’re either incompetent or they’re genocidal or both. Hint: both.
Unfortunately, for those in the know, the IDF’s callous and sadistic operations in Palestine have been known for some time. They had a good PR arm making themselves out to be super careful in the occupied territories, but it was always at odds with their actions.
If their good pr looks like that, I can’t imagine the bad pr arm
Well, the good PR arm is pre-October 7, back when they were ‘just’ doming American citizens and tying Palestinian children to their vehicles as human shields. Right now I’m pretty sure their entire PR team is either on vacation celebrating that their job is over now that Israel is going mask off, or have chosen to eat a bullet over seeing their work whitewashing all these atrocities pissed away by Netanyahu.
They weren’t that great before. lol
Just needed to be good enough to convince a significant portion of the American electorate to back them to the hilt.
I guess it’s war criminals killing civilians, mostly.
right, not even getting to the point of fighting each other, this makes it so much worse.
Right? I learned yesterday that Israel is suffering from a lot more friendly fire incidents than is typical in urban warfare. Almost like the people they’re fighting are so poorly equipped to fight back that the main threat to Israeli soldiers is other Israeli soldiers.
Disgusting.
Yeah, all those children murdered so that their parents homes can be stolen are war criminals…
Im talking about hammas and the Israeli military, who are you talking about? I dont quite get you
deleted by creator
I don’t get too worked up by right-wing religious nuts harming other right-wing religious nuts.
Sadly, there are many innocents who are caught between the two.
Yep, thats my Main issue. Also there seems to be a group oft people that can make out the good guys in this conflict, which isnt a thing i think.
But the IDF is the most moral army in the world, they said so.
oh, okay then. if people say they are something they just are, right?
Obviously, no one is allowed to lie on the internet
yeah, its illegal
This isn’t a religious war. It’s an oppressed people fighting back against a secular political ideology that uses religion to it’s goals.
Who has ever said they’re communists?
John Strawman
Gotta keep that connection between violence and communism alive or people may start to think it’s not true.
There are fringe far-left/tankies who support Hamas. They think Hamas=Palestinians. The far-left think they know enough about politics in the Israel-Palestine conflict when they have not even heard of the more moderate Palestinian Liberation Organisation who are worthy of more support for the Palestinian struggle. But instead, the far left loonies support terrorist acts by Hamas believing taking foreigners as hostages-- who mostly have no horse to bet in the fight between Palestine and Israel-- then abusing and raping them is justified and somehow think that will garner support for the struggle for freedom by Palestinians.
Stupid be stupid I guess. Though luckily, these pro-Hamas, far left nutjobs are on the fringe and minority.
Yeah and so is Israel. I don’t support either, I support Palestinians.
I agree.
Very telling to (rightfully) say “both sides are bad” but not say “I support civilians on both sides”. You know you can condemn a far right regime but still show solidarity with that country’s population, right?
I mean I said Israel, not Israelis, that was the hint.
How many Israeli schools and hospitals are being bombed right now?
Now that the terrorist attack is behind them, Isreali citizens arent currently being bombed the shit out of and active warzoned. Are they at risk of future terrorist attacks? Yes, but CURRENTLY its Palestinian citizens who are at a FAR higher risk
Edit: Lmao, apparently Tankies can see and reply to me even if I cant see them. I assume this is because I havent blocked them personally, but instance blocked Hexbear
Clarification to my Edit: Tankies if you are confused why Im insulting you even though you think I’m on the same side as you, Hamas can go fuck itself. Just like Isreal doesnt represent all Isreali citizens, neither does Hamas represent Palestinians. Isreal and Hamas can go fuck themselves, they are both pretty awful. I feel for Palestinians and consider them the most fucked over in this ordeal, but what Hamas did was VILE, even if what Isreal is doing in response is even more so
Oh so the thousands of rockets fired specifically at the Israeli population are perfectly fine.
They said far higher risk. Palestine doesn’t have an Iron dome. They are at a far higher risk.
The only people on Hamas’ side are Netanyahu, the former Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran who all worked hard to keep Hamas well funded and in a position of authority. The important thing is to side with Palestine, not with Hamas.
And some online loons, but yes.
Nah I’m fine with backing Hamas in this case, it doesn’t mean I’m home with entering they’ve done or do but I can say that for literally every country including my own.
I don’t think there is any world or any set of circumstances that would have me backing terrorists, but you do you I guess.
Removed by mod
When did I say anything positive about the Israeli government?
You are just looking to fight on the internet aren’t you?
Removed by mod
Pretty sure he was referring to Hamas.
You get that Israel was created by terrorists correct? It’s like a very perfect pot kettle situation.
Sure it is.
It is though. They’re both terrorist states that opportunistically attack each other but one thing is factually different Israel has killed more civilians even before the festival attack and subsequent “self defense” ethnic cleansing.
Funny how you immediately assumed I approve of the actions of the Israeli government. Even more funny: given the choice between which baby killers to back you pick a side. I’m against killing babies.
Hamas is indisputably the enemy, the issue is that the tactics Israel uses to eliminate them also cause more civilian damage than should ever be acceptable. Often they target hospitals and schools where Hamas activity isn’t even confirmed, seemingly just to cripple infrastructure and kill Palestinians.
It makes Palestinians leave, making it easier for them to get the land. Isreal has made no secret of wanting everything up to Jordan.
It also radicalizes them, creating the next generation of terrorists.
Exactly. They are making the same mistakes as the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you have 10 terrorists and you kill 5 of them, you have 30 terrorists.
Our greatest successes were when we helped put in infrastructure for the locals. In my global economics class in college, I remember that when a playground was put in a city, al-Qaeda militants were eventually seen playing on the structures. It’s a silly anecdote, but when you lift people out of desperate times, you lift them out of taking desperate measures.
Of course saying this terrorism is purely about economic hardship is only a part of the picture. There is a hatred against Jews that is widespread and isn’t going away anytime soon (especially for those countries still following the Khartoum resolution: No peace with Israel, No negotiation with Israel, No recognition of Israel), so there needs to be some hard power Israel needs to wield. Unfortunately BB has gone rogue and has decided to put all his chips on hard power and that won’t help.
“The enemy” of who? If a group is elevated to being an enemy due to the killing of civilians, the Israel government would easily meet that standard before Hamas.
The enemy of a fair and peaceful life for the innocent. Both Hamas and Israel have made it clear that they want conquest, not peace.
Israel is also the enemy. The enemy of our enemy should not always be our friend
Hamas is indisputably the enemy
Israel campaign of genocide and conquest
🤔
Sometimes it’s not as simple as the good guys versus the bad guys. Just because one side is bad doesn’t mean everyone on the other side is good. There are multiple villains in this conflict and a lot of civilians suffering because of them.
It’s not ‘good guys vs bad guys’ but there is usually an aggressor and a defender in conflict. Did Palestinians, or Hamas, organize this conflict? Did they decide to unilaterally take territory and kill thousands of people on repeat over the last decades? Hamas fighters are Palestinian people, if they weren’t organized under Hamas they would be under a different banner fighting the same war.
Yeah, they’re both irredeemable. The victims are the civilians, everyone else involved is a perpetrator.
Just because one side is bad doesn’t mean the other side is good. They can both be different flavors of bad. Just because hamas is bad doesn’t justify a genocide like Israel seems to think either.
Do you need a diagram?
who thought hamas was communist?
Communist (noun)
-
Anybody who trying to make Conservatives feel remotely guilty for being totally chill with a lot of people starving, being unhoused in unsanitary conditions and being denying life saving medical care because they are poor, foreign or inconvenient.
-
Authoritarian bogeyman who will destroy civilization via terrorism
-
Not a Republican
By the Conservative rubric of identifying communists we’re pretty much all weilding a hammer and sickle.
-
Loons, mostly. There’s been a multi-talk page dispute on Wiki, for example, over internet twits removing a sourced ‘anti-communist’ descriptor from the Hamas page that had been there for a while, because they want to believe that Hamas is aligned with them so very terribly badly.
How is the political stance of Hamas relevant?
It’s a terrorist group defending their country from an invasion. Even North Korea has the right to defend their land. Even if I don’t agree with the way they manage their country, it’s their country.
Their political stance is totally irrelevant to me.
For me the issue is that Hamas already lost, and Israel is violating every single human right until Palestinians are exterminated using Hamas as an excuse.
Hamas needs to stop fighting, they are a piece of shit because they aren’t giving up. Israel has always been a piece of shit. The end.
But Hamas is far from the only militant group fighting the IDF. If they stopped fighting another group would be fighting the IDF. Palestinians fighting now view it as a struggle for the survival of their people and culture. Even if there was no organize military in Palestine fighting, many average Palestinians have been struggling against Israeli forces for decades, unaligned.
I agree but they need to stop. This is not helping them at all at this point. Israel has America’s backup. If the groups that are fighting don’t stop, Israel won’t stop.
They have stopped fighting before though and Israel continued their aggression. They have had marches and protests where IDF opened fire on groups of civilians, killing dozens. Israel won’t stop until Palestine doesn’t exist, they have been vocal about this position for years. They have continued to steal land, they have funded and propped up Hamas rather than more moderate groups specifically so they can have a better excuse to continue fighting.
Do you have sources for these claims? Not doubting, I just want to read more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests
The 2018–2019 Gaza border protests, also known as the Great March of Return (Arabic: مسیرة العودة الكبرى, romanized: Masīra al-ʿawda al-kubrā), were a series of demonstrations held each Friday in the Gaza Strip near the Gaza-Israel border from 30 March 2018 until 27 December 2019,[13][14][15] in which Israeli forces killed a total of 223 Palestinians.[4][13] The demonstrators demanded that the Palestinian refugees must be allowed to return to lands they were displaced from in what is now Israel.
223 killed, included 46 children, and over 9000 injured
Times of Israel: For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
There are communist groups that work with Hamas, so that may have been removed because it doesn’t seem accurate.
But you see, in a dialectical analysis, far-right terrorists like Hamas serve a progressive role by not being the US, and therefore deserve critical support by leftists who are definitely not crypto-fascists. —Marxist-Leninists
I see you’ve met Lemmygrad.
Clever. Pertinent. As a “tankie,” I commend you. This is how it’s done. Take note everyone.
I don’t disagree with this, but Hamas was created by Israel, and now Israel is bombing all of Gaza because of Hamas. It really seems like Israel has been planning this genocide for a loooong time.
“Every society has the criminals it deserves.”
- Emma Goldman
Can’t blame anyone for retaliating against the shit conditions they’ve been put in.
In the same vein, Israel’s right-wing regime was in no small part created by Islamist hostilities towards Israel and Jewish people from the very start
Do you mean prior to the Israeli occupation of Palestine in 1967? Because I think it’s somewhat reasonable to be hostile towards an occupational force.
Not a gotcha I’m genuinely curious at what point in history you are referring to, apologies if it sounds antagonistic.
Not only an occupational force, but one extending colonial rule with arguably as bad or worse treatment of the native populace (and no, jews moving to Israel are not native to the land just because that was true a long time ago and they have a book telling them it is so).
deleted by creator
How are you just casually missing 20 years of history before that? Not to mention the preceeding 1000 years.
So you’re saying Israel has a right to genocide Palestine because of the previous thousand years of history before 1967?
We can cherry pick timelines if we want to, but the fact is that Israel has occupied Palestine for the last 50 years. This is why Hamas exists, and this is the issue we face today.
The previous thousand years only serve as propaganda for modern Israel to be on board with the genocide.
This is just straight up islamophobic rhetoric
Wow, those leaps could set a world record. Get real. You’re cherry picking and then accusing me of cherry picking?
What leaps are you referring to?
If you knew anything about what you said, you’d be able to figure that out yourself.
deleted by creator
According to the idf Israel removed themselves in 2005. But this is under heavy scrutiny from various human rights organizations.
"The United Nations, international human rights organizations and many legal scholars regard the Gaza Strip to still be under military occupation by Israel.[5] This is disputed by Israel and other legal scholars.[75] They argue that occupation requires an actual, physical presence by a military force that maintains authority.
Following the withdrawal, Israel continued to maintain direct control over Gaza’s air and maritime space, six of Gaza’s seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
This has been an incredibly slow genocide for decades
Well yes, they are well versed in history, right-wing politicians in Israel view the conflict on a biblical time scale and believe they are regaining their holy land. They are doing it as carefully and deliberately as they can, which is difficult and time consuming because they are supported by the West who mostly doesn’t want them to commit genocide. Without the support of the West, Israel would be much more likely to be defeated by the numerous enemies that surround them.
Note: This is sure as shit not meant to downplay or deny Israel’s ongoing genocide. Only to point out the absurdity of some online leftists in simping for Hamas and expressing disbelief that far-right theocrats with a history of committing terrible crimes would commit terrible crimes.
Hey @Satelllliiiiiiiteeee what part of this do you disagree with?
I don’t know why it’s so hard for certain people to understand that sometimes (actual most of the time), all sides are the bad guys.
Maybe, there are more sides than just the people with guns and bombs.
Sounds like those people need to pick a side or risk getting gunned down or bombed.
Because some people need there to be someone they can root for, especially if the other side is aligned with other people they don’t like.
They are both bad, but one of them trades with the rest of the world. That’s why most governments lean towards them.
It’s incredible that this meme has a reason to exist, that there truly are people who refuse to accept the obvious, that Hamas is an extreme radical organization that feeds on hatred and is more than willing to use and abuse their own population as cannon fodder, for martyrdom-propaganda purposes.
Yep, and that the existence of Hamas doesn’t give Israel the right to Genocide anyone. It seems really simple on the surface, but fucking Christ do humans love their team sports analogs.
“If you don’t full-throated support Israel, you’re antisemitic and must love Hamas”
I actually hate both, because both are doing extreme harm, but Israel is on a different level and actively supports Hamas because they’re useful opposition. Hamas is a symptom of the oppression that Israel has instituted.
I hate that it’s even necessary to make a personal qualification on the good-ness/bad-ness of either group.
I shouldn’t have to say “I hate both”, I would like to simply observe - “The current conflict is - in part - a result of decades of systemic oppression and disenfranchisement on the basis of religious nationalism” - without someone jumping down my throat to accuse me of antisemitism or of supporting a terrorist group.
Yep, but the team sports! You gotta make it clear you’re not rooting for anyone, you just want people to stop dying. But that means you have to condemn, cause if you don’t, the team sports people think you’re talking bad about them (and that doesn’t cause any alarms in their heads to go off, cause “they made me feel bad” instead of “maybe this shouldn’t be a team thing”)
But yeah, that’s a part of being human, as frustrating as that is. Our brains want to make “us and them” cause that’s a remnant of how we survived. We don’t need it any more, but that doesn’t change that that’s in our programming.
People tend to assign a good side and a bad side to conflicts. Because the IDF is essentially committing genocide to attack Hamas, people who don’t know much about Hamas are labeling Hamas the good side.
In reality Hamas and the IDF are both pretty monstrous and civilians are suffering as a result of both their actions, but since “Palestinian civilian” isn’t a fun team name they get lumped in with Hamas by ignorant people -_-
They aren’t “committing genocide to attack Hamas”, they have propped up Hamas for years specifically so they can bomb average people more and enact genocidal policies, in their ultimate goal of the destruction of Palestine. Right-wing Israeli politicians have been pretty clear about that for decades. Hamas isn’t alone on their side, and Israel isn’t targeting them specifically, they are just the largest of several militant groups fighting against Israel.
For me is totaly credible, reality has a lot of nuances and it is complex to understand. If ppl still votes for trumps, bolsonaros and le pens how would you find incredible they can’t understand shit about one of the most complex conflics of the last century?
Yeah maybe but Netanyahu put Hamas in power, against recommendations, and blatantly obvious issues. It had to be purposeful so he had a target that “deserved” to be bombed, so the campaign for the last 70 years could speed up.
For those doubting this, IDF leadership have admitted to this, and Arafat confirmed it.
Doesn’t justify the bombing of hospitals and civilians. Nobody likes Hamas but they’re the result of Israel’s illegal annexation of Palestinian territories and subsequent genocide.
What do you think the Palestinians who had their house and families expropriated, blown up and/or resettled by an Apartheid State will do? Not like/join the guys who want to get rid of Israel more?
Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians, now however I assume Israel gave Hamas way more recruits.
Before Israel’s bombing campaign, Hamas wasn’t very popular among Palestinians,
That’s not true in the least.
Not just not true. A deliberate lie.
The state of Israel is older than Hamas and Israel bombing Palestinians started before 7th of October 2023. I think the establishment of Hamas in 1987 and rising popularity till they got elected on Gaza in 2007 can be fairly attributed to Israel’s bombing, displacement and apartheid rule of civilians.
As well as millions of dollars given to Hamas by Israeli officials throughout this time, specifically because of their unpalatable extremism.
Same goes the other way as well. The popularity of Netanyahu in Israel would also be much lower if he couldn’t use Hamas terror attacks to justify the need for a “strong leader”.
Last I checked his popularity ain’t doing so well.
Also may I remind you that the genocide of the Palestinians has been ongoing for far longer than the 7th of October and far precedes Netanyahu’s government. In fact it even precedes hamas.
That part supporters of either group fail at is that neither Hamas or the Israeli government are worthy of support or in the right. One behaves worse than the other at the moment. But there can never be peace with those two in power. It’s a really fucked situation and my heart really hurts for the people caught in the crossfire of it all.
It seems that netanyahu bolstered hamas for years for political gain, and squashing any moderate palestinian activists, teachers or politicians. Like jailing them. What happened was really predictable.
And both of them are getting what they want, to be the kings of ashes.
