There will come a point when things happening on the web will become more important than what happens outside of it. And maybe, we are already past that, finding ourselves tumbling towards disaster…
But effectively, Marxism is about a violent uprising of the worker class and then this working class rules, right? So that’s kind of authoritarian. Stalin is of course in the most left, most top corner.
All of them are about violent uprising because capitalists are never going to willingly give up their power.
If it’s carried out all the way, the end result is a stateless, hierarchy-less society; In such a place you wouldn’t be above or below anyone to exert authority over.
Ok, I see. Thing is, I don’t believe this stateless, hierarchy-less society to be possible. At least not on a global level. So for me it always results in replacing the ruling class with another ruling class, which makes it authoritarian to me.
Well, because it has some interesting aspects and I’m a curious person. Also, I don’t think solarpunk is necessarily socialist. For example universalist Marxists, with which I have many symphasizes, would (imo) come up with the same conclusion that liberal democracy is the best system currently, because it allows for the co-existence of a broad range of different lifestyles and forms of communities - if we allow them to grow and not let the market decide everything for us.
From a political stance, I would call myself a traditional liberalist, like in the tradition of the enlightenment. This means I’m against a global socialist system, because I don’t think it can work and allow this diversity of lifestyles. What we share I think is that I’m also against neo-liberalism. But if one of the many decentralized communities that are part of MY future of society, decides for example to distribute their goods with big data - I’m all for that. I’m curious to see how things will develop here even though I wouldn’t like join a solarpunk commune or anything.
I was mostly joking, “stalinism” doesnt exist. Stalin just continued the Marxist-Leninist plan.
I don’t think you can have a revolution and get communism immediatly like anarchs want, socialism itself can barely survive in a world economy dominated by financerized capitalism without playing ball with them. (see China, Vietnam and such)
We need a transition period. And I just can’t fathom communism existing while capitalists still run the world.
True top left should be Stalin.
Middle left Marx.
Bottom left Kropotkin.
But effectively, Marxism is about a violent uprising of the worker class and then this working class rules, right? So that’s kind of authoritarian. Stalin is of course in the most left, most top corner.
No, not really.
All of them are about violent uprising because capitalists are never going to willingly give up their power.
If it’s carried out all the way, the end result is a stateless, hierarchy-less society; In such a place you wouldn’t be above or below anyone to exert authority over.
Ok, I see. Thing is, I don’t believe this stateless, hierarchy-less society to be possible. At least not on a global level. So for me it always results in replacing the ruling class with another ruling class, which makes it authoritarian to me.
So why exactly are you in a SolarPunk community if you don’t believe in it?
Well, because it has some interesting aspects and I’m a curious person. Also, I don’t think solarpunk is necessarily socialist. For example universalist Marxists, with which I have many symphasizes, would (imo) come up with the same conclusion that liberal democracy is the best system currently, because it allows for the co-existence of a broad range of different lifestyles and forms of communities - if we allow them to grow and not let the market decide everything for us.
From a political stance, I would call myself a traditional liberalist, like in the tradition of the enlightenment. This means I’m against a global socialist system, because I don’t think it can work and allow this diversity of lifestyles. What we share I think is that I’m also against neo-liberalism. But if one of the many decentralized communities that are part of MY future of society, decides for example to distribute their goods with big data - I’m all for that. I’m curious to see how things will develop here even though I wouldn’t like join a solarpunk commune or anything.
the end goal of marxists leninists stalinists and whathaveyou is this classless society. the difference is on how to get there.
Nah Stalinists (and its descendants Juche, Maoism) replace one dictator with another, they’ll never achieve this society.
I was mostly joking, “stalinism” doesnt exist. Stalin just continued the Marxist-Leninist plan.
I don’t think you can have a revolution and get communism immediatly like anarchs want, socialism itself can barely survive in a world economy dominated by financerized capitalism without playing ball with them. (see China, Vietnam and such)
We need a transition period. And I just can’t fathom communism existing while capitalists still run the world.