Yes, we’re going around in circles because you keep trying to hang on to a shred of hope that this isn’t right by claiming I’m not being objective enough for you, that the entire argument boils down to quantity of shells on a manifest, and if we can’t find it (which we can’t) then you’ll be able to hold on to that shred of hope.

I think we have a fundamental disconnect in how to approach this debate, then. I checked and it actually wasn’t too hard to find ballpark numbers in open sources. But, if you’re explicitly saying that you’re not into the idea of looking at data on the overall picture and instead want to just construct narratives, then I’m not into that. The simple reason being that it can go on forever with the two of us just yelling our narratives at each other.

I also note that once we get into objectively verifiable things (the order of magnitude of aid packages, the nature of American aid to Ukraine), you all of a sudden turn out to have been wrong about some pretty relevant-to-the-debate things you were previously real confident about telling me what’s what about. It makes me not want to suddenly put a ton of trust into the more complex or far-reaching narratives you’re constructing (no matter how firmly you’re willing to tell them to me.)

The early stages were enjoyable and I actually learned some things but I think the discussion has run its course. Cheers and all the best.