Protesting the removal of user scores from the API (Re: 3393) · Issue #4215 · LemmyNet/lemmy
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Is your proposal related to a problem?

User score aggregates were removed from the API in 0.19.0 in PR 4089. The justification was that it was psychologically harmful.

I am officially protesting this removal and asking for it to be reconsidered.

Describe the solution you’d like.

Re-enable it at the API level and continue hiding it in Lemmy-UI if that is your personal stance on the matter. Or, make it an option admins/users can disable at the instance/user level (there’s already an option to hide scores, so maybe expand on that?).

Other UIs do utilize scores, and it is a useful metric for moderation.

e.g. If I load a user’s profile to determine an appropriate mod action, and I see it is a 2 day old account with a combined comment/post score in the deep negative, I really only need to review a couple of submissions to confirm it is a troll account. Not only does that save me precious time, it is also good for my psychological health to not read through all that garbage.

e.g. #2: If someone posts a particularly toxic comment but their score to post/comment count ratio is high, I’m more likely to read through their history and conclude they’re having a bad day or something. Without the score, I will not read through and likely just ban them and move on.

Describe alternatives you’ve considered.

Compile it back in for myself and anyone else who wants it, I guess? 😔

Additional context

Considering how easy it is to spin up troll accounts or amass multiple troll accounts across multiple instances, removing a useful metric for identifying them at a glance is, IMO, irresponsible.

If you don’t want people to “game” it or don’t like the idea of user scores, then make it optional and disable it on your instance, but don’t remove it and impose your preferences on instance admins who want to utilize it.

  • Lvxferre
    3·
    1 year ago

    Then join an instance where scores are disabled if you don’t like them. :shurg:

    Already addressed - a lot of those issues will still affect you, even if you don’t use the karma system.

    Let’s say that instances A (karma disabled) and B (karma enabled) federate. A users won’t get the karma system itself, but they’ll still get: less varied and less interesting content, stronger echo chambers, and higher concentration of users in oversized and unruly comms. Because they use the same comms as the B users and thus the behaviour of B users affect A.

    Choosing an instance where downvotes are disabled is already a preference, so making the score aggregates optional is completely in line with that.

    Downvotes are a mixed feature, with pros and cons.
    Karma looks good from a distance, but upon closer inspection it’s only cons. (Including enabling shitty=assumptive mod practices.)

    You’re already on .ml, so…

    I am clearly not talking about my individual usage here. I’m talking about users in general and the Lemmyverse as a whole.

    The whole shtick of Lemmy is run your instance the way you want to run it.

    I’m not sure on what’s supposed to be the [ipsis digitis] “whole shtick of Lemmy”, and I’m not assuming it.

    The removal of the scores from the API seems [for me] heavy-handed and feels [for me] like the devs are forcing their preferences/values on others.

    For me it looks like a sensible decision that takes into account its impact into users and the Lemmyverse.

    EDIT: I’ll go further. Dunno if the devs agree with this or not, but I believe that “user aggregate score” = karma also attracts and retains users with the wrong mindset - who are not here to share, contribute or be part of something social and collective; but instead to farm virtual e-peen points for the sake of their individual egos. And I believe that this “it’s all about MEEE! ME! ME!” mindset is part of what makes Reddit such a dumpster fire.

      • Lvxferre
        1·
        1 year ago

        Translation: “I got my way and I’m going to impose it on everyone across the universe.”

        If you genuinely believe that this is an accurate “translation” of what I wrote, then I can’t help but heavily question your basic reading comprehension and your ability to reason (given the blatant assumption).

        In other words. Could you be a dead weight elsewhere? Shoo.