• OurToothbrush
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    1 year ago

    That’s literally whataboutism, I criticized people using the vocabulary of “whataboutism” and then you said “but whatabout people who are doing whataboutism!”

    To be clear, I dont believe whataboutism is a fallacy, but you do, so why are you doing it?

    • sub_ubi
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      1 year ago

      It’s funny liberals had to start calling it “Whataboutism” as the previous term made it clear they were racist.

    • GreatGrapeApe@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      No it isn’t. I am explaining why whataboutism is a fallacy itself. If you have a valid counterpoint to a claim there would be no need to engage with whataboutism.

      I am not engaging in whataboutism but based on your view that it isn’t fallacious Im not sure you will understand that. Not everyone is good at logical processing.

      • OurToothbrush
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        1 year ago

        I was criticizing people claiming whataboutism, you were doing “but what about people doing whataboutism!” Which is whataboutism.

        Not everyone is good at logical processing.

        Hence why we are having this conversation.

          • OurToothbrush
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            1 year ago

            You’re literally advocating for the concept of a fallacy which is basically whining “no you can’t just provide context nooo that would defeat my point.” Which was first used to excuse British colonial brutality and later used to defend lynching.

            • GreatGrapeApe@reddthat.com
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              1 year ago

              No I am not doing that.

              Whataboutism is an actual fallacy even if you din’t recognize that.

              If we were talking about the vast amounts of crimes the British East India company was responsible for and you chimed in with “whatabout the Dutch East India company’s crimes” that would be a fallacious point because it is unrelated to the discussion and is only a diversionary tactic.

              That is why whataboutism is a fallacy. It is used by people who cannot address the argument being made which you have done here.

              The fact that the initial use of the term was to defray from atrocities doesn’t make the use of whataboutisms logically valid.

              • OurToothbrush
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                1 year ago

                If you mention that the soviet union used tear gas in rare instances and therefore they’re authoritarian then I mention that the US frequently tear gasses protestors and BLM organizers keep showing up having shot themselves in the back of the head twice and you dont call them authoritarian that’s “whataboutism” and it isnt a fallacy, it is providing context that points out hypocrisy.

                You dont want to understand yourself to be a hypocrite but you don’t want to change, is what it boils down to. So you do the though terminating “whataboutism” and you can ignore it.

                • GreatGrapeApe@reddthat.com
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                  1 year ago

                  In my Dutch/British East India Co example it is whataboutism because the purpose of brining up the Dutch East India company is to divert from the subject at hand. In your examples you ARE providing context and are not trying to change the subject so your examples are not examples of whataboutism and that is why you are not understanding what “whataboutism” is and why it is a fallacy.

                  If I said the USSR was authoritarian and therefore did not represent the will of the masses and you said “what about British the monarchy” and then tried to focus on that discussion then that would ge whataboutism.

                  Whataboutism is not about providing context through contrasting examples. It is a diversionary tactic for when you cannot address the claims made.

                  Im not being a hypocrite. You just don’t understand what whataboutism is as you have proved with your examples which once again are not examples of whataboutism.

                  • OurToothbrush
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                    1 year ago

                    That’s a shitty way of separating it though. It relies on knowing authorial intent which is impossible. You can project whatever you want onto the other person and based on that theyre either doing a logical fallacy or not.