Surprise! We’ve got another essay in the Transgender Marxism collection up for discussion.

The PDF is here – https://transreads.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021-07-15_60f0b3d5edcb7_jules-joanne-gleeson-transgender-marxism-1.pdf

The intro discussion, with links to all the essay discussions is here – https://lemmygrad.ml/post/395378

Tonight’s essay is How Do Gender Transitions Happen? by Jules Joanne Gleeson

Jules Joanne Gleeson is a Londoner living in Vienna. She has performed lectures and stand-up comedy internationally. Her essays have been published widely, including by Viewpoint Magazine, Invert, TSQ, Homintern, VICE, Oxford Art Journal and Salvage. Jules co-founded the Leftovers communist discussion group, has copyedited several Marxist monographs, and is writing a book about logic and hermaphrodites. She enjoys pop music, mystical texts and kettlebells.

As with previous discussions, I’ll be pulling quotes and making notes.

Feel free to join in and ask questions, make comments, learn something together with me!! (No time limit, I will always come back to these, so don’t feel like you can’t chime in just because you found this post like eight months late).

Edit: The next discussion, on an essay by Nat Raha, is here - https://lemmygrad.ml/post/408500

  • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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    22 years ago

    Passing is a tetchy subject, politically. Gleeson notes that there are vocal objections to passing as assimilationist (which is very true), but that nevertheless it represents a common desire amongst trans people. I’ll say myself that passing is also something largely reserved for a a select few privileged transitioners, primarily white. There’s a whole discussion to be had about passing and the way it is leveraged to support ideas of transmedicalism.

    While passing is often sought as a desire to escape the violence inflicted on trans people, the overwhelming majority of violence is directed towards poor Black trans women. For them, passing is often a matter of life or death. However, passing is also for them farthest out of reach, due in part to the prohibitive expense of passing, the lack of proper medical care, and the very real truth that Black bodies are more heavily policed and are already (for cis people as well) considered to exist on a spectrum of queerness outside of the cishet white normativity of the gender binary.

    • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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      2 years ago

      Arguments can be made that otherwise privileged white trans people who pass (or live stealth)–a mode of existence denied to the most vulnerable trans people–and live in fear of violence generally reserved for the most vulnerable trans people, and choose not instead to leverage their relative privilege to dismantle systems of cisnormative oppression and to fight against assimilationist views of transgender identity that reify passing as the ultimate desire and arbiter of “true transition,” are doing a grave disservice to the cause of queer liberation.

      There’s also the small element of self-defeatism that comes from passing, in that the existence of passing trans people is leveraged as fuel in trans panic and can serve to actually increase the danger of violence against trans people.

      • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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        32 years ago

        What follows is an accounting of Natalie Wynn’s (Contra Points) transition, which pretty much shows what I was just talking about. To Natalie Wynn, transition is almost entirely a burden on the transitioner, and that it is up to the transitioner to conform to the cisnormative ideals of the gender binary. In it, she lists the many steps she has and must take to transition, which shows just how prohibitively expensive, and ultimately privileged it is to achieve.

        “It’s the net effect of these things – my acquired social position as a woman – that makes it philosophically sound to call me a woman. The minutiae of how I achieve that end are not particularly relevant … The goal of my transition is merely to conform enough to elicit that mysterious ‘seems like a woman’ perception”

        • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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          2 years ago

          Of this, Gleeson says:

          “she wishes to be taken as a woman and (in her words) being read as such is the only philosophically sound basis for her being considered one.”

          I vehemently disagree with Natalie Wynn’s stance on transition. I vehemently disagree with Contra Points on…a lot of things. But I’m sure that most people around here already have their own opinions on her. It’s important to note that this is just one conception of transition Gleeson is discussing.

          • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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            22 years ago

            This particular stance, that personhood is drawn into being by encounter, or in otherwords, that your observation by an “other” constitutes your identity, is aleatory materialism as coined by Louis Althusser

            • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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              2 years ago

              “Gendered traits can cause a considerable degree of anxiety during the transition process (just as cisgendered men might worry that wearing too much pink attire makes them seem ‘unmanly’, or a cis woman could be concerned a short haircut would leave her face appearing ‘mannish’).”

              Throughout our explorations of transition, it is always important for us to remember that the mechanisms which serve to make trans lives so difficult, the enforcement and social reproduction of cisnormative gender hierarchies, are not a uniquely trans phenomenon.

              Queer liberation is about the abolition of gender as a class structure, which should be the goal of any Marxist. Only through intersectional examinations of the myriad class structures capitalism has imposed on humanity can we ultimately craft a classless society.

              Cis people are, as we spoke about in a previous essay (I want to say the Noah Zazanis one) ultimately the people who have most been subjected to the enforcement of gender classes. Who, through social reproduction of gender and through the punishment for nonconformity, have arrived ultimately at a cisgender identity with all of the restrictions on self-expression that entails.

              • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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                22 years ago

                “However, in most cases trans people will encounter immutable features they are unlikely to be able to do anything much to alter (the hip bones of trans men who transition post-puberty or the ribcages of trans women are two common examples).”

                Rib cages??? I have never heard this one. Are people spending time worried about their rib cages? What’s that about? I have never…noticed any sort of deviation between a trans woman’s rib cage and a cis woman’s rib cage. Nor between the rib cages of cis men and cis women. Just never crossed my mind. Has anyone else encountered this?

                • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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                  32 years ago

                  “Taking up this outlook, many trans people have grown near obsessively astute in noticing, and itemising, gendered features of everyday presentation. Few of society’s arbitrary sexed associations or gender expectations today escape the discerning eye of anxious transsexuals”

                  Trans people really do become their own worst transvestigators. I think the wildest part is that before all of this trans panic nonsense, I really doubt people were trying to find rib cage or square jaw gotchas. In the 80s women wore fucking shoulderpads for heavens’ sake, and now we have people glaring down each other’s clavicles trying to suss out who the the real cissies are.

                  Not a lot of literary examples in the past attributing such minute details to either sex, but I guess the heightened fears of transition in such an excruciatingly examined and documented society have led trans people to be hyper critical of themselves. (and I know there are quite a few cis people doing the same). However it’s important to remember that even among cis people these are not sexual determinants, and cis people are getting “outed” as trans just as much over this, proving how deeply flawed the reasoning is.

                  • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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                    32 years ago

                    “This perspective is notable for matching very closely to the perspective of the state: for instance, to satisfy the British Passport Office that your gender change is permanent enough for a corrected ‘sex’ entry, one currently needs the following: an assessment by a relevantly qualified medical professional, a letter from an employer or local authority confirming that your new identity is in use with them, and a completed deed poll”

                    As I mentioned, the pathologising of transition, and the focus on transmedicalism is in the state’s favour as a function of assimilation, extending the (few) rights of transition only to those privileged enough to pass their trials, while allowing the state to continue its attack on the poor queers, especially the racialised ones.

                • Sankavara Gardens
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                  22 years ago

                  I’ve seen some trans girls mention their ribcage, but I think the overall dysphoria still relates to the way we compare our upper body proportions to cis women, similar to shoulder dysphoria

                  • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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                    22 years ago

                    Yeah, I’ve definitely heard the shoulder one (and have experienced it myself, especially when getting clothes, there are things that would otherwise fit lovely but they’re just too tight on the shoulders). But ribcage surprises me, never heard it before. I wonder if hearing people mention it causes people to dwell on it more than they would on their own.