I was gonna title this “And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice” and then write “Stuck inside of America with the fascism blues again” here, but I’m not sure if that comes off like gloating and that’s honestly the last thing I want to do this morning.

  • alcoholicorn
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    15 days ago

    Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

    It absolutely would have. Progressive policy is insanely popular and easy to campaign on by virtue of being designed to help everyone. Do you think Bernie had such high favorably ratings because they have a thing for 80 year old white dudes?

    Tell people “healthcare will be free” or “We will cap rent and build housing that won’t cost more than 3x local median income” and then people can’t afford not to vote for you.

    Biden could have cut off arms to Israel, and hundreds of thousands of students so politically activated they’re willing to risk their degrees to protest would be doing everything in their power to keep Trump out.

    Instead they sent the police to kick the shit out of those kids, at great expense to the colleges, and called them antisemitic.

    • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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      15 days ago

      Why then do countries with existing left parties and proportional representation elect further and further right-wing parties in Europe?

      It’s simple: They promise easy solutions for complicated problems. Banning immigration will fix all crime and the economy, opposing LGBTQ+ rights will ensure a return of the better olden days, climate change is nothing to be worried about etc etc

      And even people depending on social support will gladly shoot themselves in their feet if it means someone else will have it worse.

    • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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      15 days ago

      It absolutely would have. Progressive policy is insanely popular and easy to campaign on by virtue of being designed to help everyone.

      Hence all the down-ballot leftists taking office. Oh wait.

      Are you seriously suggesting that American politicians are not craven enough? As if there’s some wealth of easy wins they’re just leaving on the table?

      • alcoholicorn
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        15 days ago

        https://www.dataforprogress.org/polling-the-left-agenda

        This is just the first result in google, you’ll find similar data except in polls that really torture the question’s wording to get a specific answer.

        American politicians are not craven enough?

        What do you mean craven? Democrat politicians aren’t afraid of the base, they hate the base and stand up to us all the time, most visibly gaza. It’s republican politicians that fear their base.

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
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      15 days ago

      Tell people “healthcare will be free” or “We will cap rent and build housing that won’t cost more than 3x local median income” and then people can’t afford not to vote for you.

      1. It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.
      2. They told people “I won’t do mass deportations or order the assassinations of my enemies” and it didn’t work. Why do you assume that this other stuff would?
      • theparadox@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago
        1. It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.

        The policies are extremely popular and universal. Doesn’t really matter in a politicalcampaign if you struggle to achieve those ends. Trying is important and failing gives you ammunition against those who oppose extremely popular policies for next campaign.

        1. They told people “I won’t do mass deportations or order the assassinations of my enemies” and it didn’t work. Why do you assume that this other stuff would?

        The bottom line is that the average person isn’t listening for anything besides “how is the candidate going to help me because I feel like I’m drowning”. The right scapegoats something and promises to fix your problems by hurting the scapegoat (immigrants, minorities, socialists, whatever). This is a lie, but it’s just as, if not more, direct of a solution so some voters will support them.

        Harris had attention when she said things like stopping price gouging and providing in-home elder care. Those were extremely popular ideas that she didn’t focus on. Instead, she pivoted right.

      • alcoholicorn
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        15 days ago

        It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.

        The US president is probably the single most powerful position in the world between explicit powers and people who serve at his pleasure and can be replaced at will, and undefined powers that that extend as far as anyone is able to stop them, as we saw under Trump. If they just flagrantly broke the law and kept doing it until the SCOTUS and others actually stopped them, the dems would be far more popular than just throwing their hands up and saying "better things aren’t possible.

        There’s a lot of indirect ways they can get what they want done, whether it means appointing an AG and other department heads who will punish people who don’t go along or using the military’s vast legal protections and resources.

        They told people “I won’t do mass deportations

        1. That’s not saying how you’ll improve people’s immediate conditions, just that trump will make them worse

        2. You can’t credibly say that when Biden deported more people than Trump.

        • BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world
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          15 days ago

          If they just flagrantly broke the law and kept doing it until the SCOTUS and others actually stopped them, the dems would be far more popular than just throwing their hands up and saying "better things aren’t possible.

          This is basically what FDR did with a lot of his social and work programs during his presidency. He’d establish an agency or authority or whatever, regardless of the legality, and by the time the court’s or whoever made the decision to close it, they’d have 5 others going simultaneously, and/or they’d make another one. And the process would start all over again.

          • alcoholicorn
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            15 days ago

            Yup. The nice thing about policy that helps everyone is that it’s incredibly unpopular to kill. Biden could have burned student debt in the most visible way possible, and then dared the SCOTUS to create new debt. If they took the bait, you’d have 46.2 million people ready to vote for anyone who promises to expand the SCOTUS.

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      It’s easy to get students to protest. They’re young, it’s exciting.

      Voting isn’t loud or angry, so it doesn’t feel effective. It feels like actual work. And so they skip it.

      • John Richard@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        I’m sorry, forgive me if I don’t take advice from the party that just lost. After Kamala picked Walz she was up by more than 5 points in many states that she was trailing in at the end of her campaign. People skip voting when you pick unpopular policies like Praise the Cheney’s, No Different than Zionist Joe, Billionaire Mark Cuban Is the Greatest, and Hollywood Loves Me.

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
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          15 days ago

          Yup, other than picking Walz each new thing the campaign did made me less excited aboit voting for Harris. I would have rather had Walz lead the ticket, at least he would have been an unknown white guy that the right wing propaganda would have had trouble vilifying.

          • John Richard@lemmy.world
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            15 days ago

            I don’t think the white guy thing is as important as at least he would have been someone that wasn’t directly tied to the White House that has been lying about genocide for the last year, or apartheid for the last 4 years.

              • alcoholicorn
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                15 days ago

                OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway. Of the dems many mistakes, running a black woman wasn’t one of them.

                • snooggums@lemmy.world
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                  15 days ago

                  OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway

                  No, plenty of them vote Democrat too, because the majority of the country is racist and sexist, even if it is just subconscious.

                  I’m not saying running a black woman was a mistake, just that a white man has an advantage because the population tends to favor white men.

                  • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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                    15 days ago

                    So help me, I’m tired of seeing this take. You can’t have it both ways. If you think Americans (dems specifically) are too racist/sexist for a black female president, then running her IS a mistake. Either you think it’s ok to run a candidate you know will likely lose but it’s worth it to say a black female ran, or you think they had reason to believe she would win. If #1, then that’s tacit support of Trump, if #2 you think the best poli sci/stats people in America were too dumb to figure out people are too sexist/racist.

                    I know dem voters that are racist (seeing a POC=lock your doors). They voted Harris. I know Rs that are racist (too racist to write here). They voted Trump. If the dems ran a better campaign, Kamala would have won. If they knew they were gonna run this campaign and were concerned the tiny minority of dem racists/sexists would be a problem, they should have run a white man. The take that America is racist but Kamala did all she could and the platform was great and we don’t regret running her is the problem with democrats. They did something wrong because they lost. If they wanna blame racism/sexism, fine, but then they have to take accountability for having a black woman run as the only choice. If we’re saying that’s the reason I don’t wanna see them run this kind of campaign for another woman or POC. Give us our rights. I don’t care what the person who does that looks like.

                    Sorry for the rant. I’m sure we agree on most issues, I’m just absolutely livid. I’m beyond consolation. My best friend just had a miscarriage and was given medical care that Rs are trying to make illegal. She would have died without it. She’s still trying to convince. If this happens again in trumps America, I don’t know what her outcome would be. It feels hopeless when people just point at voters. Dems can’t change America, but they can change their platform. I hope they learn and do better, but that’s been my hope for too long. I’m losing faith.

              • gAlienLifeform@lemmy.worldOP
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                15 days ago

                I don’t think you’re wrong but I also have to add that I won’t accept that we just can’t run black women for offices for that reason

                e; I should have read this thread further, it looks like other people are already discussing this

              • John Richard@lemmy.world
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                15 days ago

                I’m not pretending racism and sexism doesn’t exist, but that didn’t cause her to lose. I hope one day you’ll come to accept that.