Alternatively, left leaning holdouts for some reason really like to punch themselves and all their friends and family in the nuts and are a real wanker class.
left leaning holdouts for some reason really like to punch themselves and all their friends and family in the nuts
My brother is voting for Jill Stein because Biden (and by association Harris) supposedly supports genocide - but he thinks Putin is a good person (and has recently started talking about how great China is) and waves his hand when I mention that Trump would support Netanyahu even more. Your “for some reason” resonates with me because I have no fucking idea what happened to my brother to make him start saying this kind of nonsense - except that I know he stopped reading books and now gets his news entirely from his Facebook feed.
Trump is a clear supporter of the genocide. He wants Israel to destroy Palestine and he wants the US to do more to help them accomplish this. Harris is nowhere near as bad as this. She’s not going to withdraw support for Israel, but she’s at least going to try to rein them in and return to the pre-war status. Not great, but realistically the best that we can hope for with how supportive our politicians are of Israel in general.
These are the only two people that have a chance at the White House. If you don’t want to support the genocide, don’t waste your vote on somebody that is absolutely, without a doubt, going to lose. Instead, use it to vote for the one candidate that is possibly able to win over the person that is explicitly, unequivocally supportive of the genocide.
In my eyes, not voting for Harris is supporting the genocide. Anything that allows Trump into office is supporting the genocide.
That’s extremely entitled of you. You’re willing to throw away a flawed democracy to allow fascism to take over because you don’t like either viable candidate? Absolutely childish. I guess the LGBTQ folk, minority folk, women, and everyone else who will suffer under Trump don’t matter one bit to you, and ironically you’ll accelerate the genocide in Gaza by letting Trump win.
You don’t have a choice for “no genocide” because Israel has no intention of stopping. You can choose the one viable candidate who has a chance at lessening it, or you can choose the other candidate who has explicitly stated he will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants. Third party votes accomplish absolutely nothing for Gaza, and the Palestinians sure as hell won’t thank you for it.
I’ll consider believing there’s a difference between Kamala and Joe when Kamala says there’s a difference. Until then, you’re just making up a reality in your mind where she is somehow better than him on this despite showing no indication of that.
You know, at first I was thinking that this is a really bad take. But then I realized something: this is a classic trolley problem.
Sparing the details because you probably already know them, it comes down to a choice: you can do nothing and five people will die, or you can actively perform an action and only one person will die. The only choice you have is to do nothing or do something.
So the problem becomes: which is the morally correct choice? On one hand, does doing nothing absolve you of the five deaths you could have avoided? On the other, does actively participating make you responsible for the one death even if it was to save five?
Back in the real world, you have the same choice. Since voting for a third party that has no chance of winning is functionally equivalent to not voting, it plays out the same way. You can do nothing and the genocide gets worse, or you can actively participate and try to reduce the damage. Which is the moral choice? Which will help you sleep at night?
That is a question philosophers have struggled with for centuries, and there’s no good answer. From my personal perspective, doing nothing IS a choice, so no matter what I do I’m still an active participant. Therefore I will choose to minimize the damage.
Yes, it’s bullshit that the current administration hasn’t takes a tougher stance on the conflict. But it will be worse under Trump, as demonstrated by both his words and his actions when he was last in office. So the question is: which will help you sleep at night: doing nothing and telling yourself that you are not responsible when Trump wins, or doing something even though you know it won’t be enough?
As powerless members of the masses, it’s the best we can do.
Vote for a candidate who has demonstrated in front of my eyes that they will support disgusting mass annihilation of human life
Or
Vote for a candidate who it seems like would be worse on the issue somehow.
I’m accepting your framing but it’s really hard to be more concerned about how hypothetically bad trump will be when Ive been seeing a lot of nonhypothetical horrific mass slaughter for 12 months and the “lesser evil” is regularly defending it on tv
Edit: to be clear I won’t be voting for either genocidal candidate
This proves that left leaning holdouts have real leverage. The Dems need us to win and if they want our votes they have to appeal to our values.
I guess…
Alternatively, left leaning holdouts for some reason really like to punch themselves and all their friends and family in the nuts and are a real wanker class.
My brother is voting for Jill Stein because Biden (and by association Harris) supposedly supports genocide - but he thinks Putin is a good person (and has recently started talking about how great China is) and waves his hand when I mention that Trump would support Netanyahu even more. Your “for some reason” resonates with me because I have no fucking idea what happened to my brother to make him start saying this kind of nonsense - except that I know he stopped reading books and now gets his news entirely from his Facebook feed.
Supporting genocide crosses a line for me that I am unwilling to compromise on. If that makes me a wanker I’ll call myself a wanker proudly.
Trump is a clear supporter of the genocide. He wants Israel to destroy Palestine and he wants the US to do more to help them accomplish this. Harris is nowhere near as bad as this. She’s not going to withdraw support for Israel, but she’s at least going to try to rein them in and return to the pre-war status. Not great, but realistically the best that we can hope for with how supportive our politicians are of Israel in general.
These are the only two people that have a chance at the White House. If you don’t want to support the genocide, don’t waste your vote on somebody that is absolutely, without a doubt, going to lose. Instead, use it to vote for the one candidate that is possibly able to win over the person that is explicitly, unequivocally supportive of the genocide.
In my eyes, not voting for Harris is supporting the genocide. Anything that allows Trump into office is supporting the genocide.
So the only thing I can do if I want to end the genocide is to vote for the person currently doing the genocide?
The “democracy” isn’t worth saving at this point
That’s extremely entitled of you. You’re willing to throw away a flawed democracy to allow fascism to take over because you don’t like either viable candidate? Absolutely childish. I guess the LGBTQ folk, minority folk, women, and everyone else who will suffer under Trump don’t matter one bit to you, and ironically you’ll accelerate the genocide in Gaza by letting Trump win.
You don’t have a choice for “no genocide” because Israel has no intention of stopping. You can choose the one viable candidate who has a chance at lessening it, or you can choose the other candidate who has explicitly stated he will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants. Third party votes accomplish absolutely nothing for Gaza, and the Palestinians sure as hell won’t thank you for it.
The only 2 viable candidates are both pro genocide
Fascism has already taken over and according to you there’s nothing I can do about it
Who do you think the US president is right now?
I’ll consider believing there’s a difference between Kamala and Joe when Kamala says there’s a difference. Until then, you’re just making up a reality in your mind where she is somehow better than him on this despite showing no indication of that.
“My vote can’t end the genocide immediately, so I might as well accelerate it”
What an asshole position.
Removed by mod
You know, at first I was thinking that this is a really bad take. But then I realized something: this is a classic trolley problem.
Sparing the details because you probably already know them, it comes down to a choice: you can do nothing and five people will die, or you can actively perform an action and only one person will die. The only choice you have is to do nothing or do something.
So the problem becomes: which is the morally correct choice? On one hand, does doing nothing absolve you of the five deaths you could have avoided? On the other, does actively participating make you responsible for the one death even if it was to save five?
Back in the real world, you have the same choice. Since voting for a third party that has no chance of winning is functionally equivalent to not voting, it plays out the same way. You can do nothing and the genocide gets worse, or you can actively participate and try to reduce the damage. Which is the moral choice? Which will help you sleep at night?
That is a question philosophers have struggled with for centuries, and there’s no good answer. From my personal perspective, doing nothing IS a choice, so no matter what I do I’m still an active participant. Therefore I will choose to minimize the damage.
Yes, it’s bullshit that the current administration hasn’t takes a tougher stance on the conflict. But it will be worse under Trump, as demonstrated by both his words and his actions when he was last in office. So the question is: which will help you sleep at night: doing nothing and telling yourself that you are not responsible when Trump wins, or doing something even though you know it won’t be enough?
As powerless members of the masses, it’s the best we can do.
Vote for a candidate who has demonstrated in front of my eyes that they will support disgusting mass annihilation of human life
Or
Vote for a candidate who it seems like would be worse on the issue somehow.
I’m accepting your framing but it’s really hard to be more concerned about how hypothetically bad trump will be when Ive been seeing a lot of nonhypothetical horrific mass slaughter for 12 months and the “lesser evil” is regularly defending it on tv
Edit: to be clear I won’t be voting for either genocidal candidate