“I don’t like murder, but I’m sure as hell not going to vote for the ‘less murder’ option! I’m going to keep my hands clean and help more murder happen instead.”
Not taking action is still a choice. Your convictions are sacraficed by not preventing the worse thing. In the trolley problem, not pulling the lever that saves lives is still a choice. You aren’t helping anyone by plugging your ears with your fingers. You’re only keeping your childish self-view intact. You didn’t actually do anything.
You’re stupid if you actually buy that. You need to actually consider your position, not listen to whatever stupid stuff you’ve heard. That’s such a childish stance.
Biden/Harris shrug off the rape prisons, decapitated children, bombed hospitals, etc. and publicly repeat some hasbara, then “leak” to the press that they’re secretly very angry and “working on a deal”. A few hours later they send Israel more bombs.
Trump, in contrast, would also send more US made bombs, except tweet that he’s “very happy” and the destruction is a “good deal”.
Trump would increase the amount we’re sending. He has said that Israel should “finish the job.” I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to know what effect your actions have. Figure it out. You don’t get to pretend like your hands are clean, because no matter what you do you made a choice and you’re a member of our society. You aren’t clean. Do what’s best for the people suffering, not for yourself. Being self-centered is not a virtue. It’s a flaw.
I acknowledge Trump uses frank, coarse rhetoric, however the result is the same: unlimited weapons and money for genocide. Trump can’t increase the amount we’re sending, as the current cap is a supply-chain issue. Unless he can magically turn money into tanks and bombs.
If you want to make this about Palestinians, consider why Jill Stein leads Harris among Palestinian Americans - especially in Michigan.
It’s large, but it isn’t unlimited. It’s also not supply-chain limited. We stockpile plenty, sell some, and are also giving some to Ukraine (which Trump will likely stop). Stop being so nieve.
If you want to make this about Palestinians, consider why Jill Stein leads Harris among Palestinian Americans - especially in Michigan.
First, I don’t really care. She is nothing except a spoiler taking Russian money.
Second, sure she says better things. She won’t do shit though because she has zero chance of winning. She’s able to say literally anything that benefits herself because there’s zero accountability because there’s no chance she’ll be required to follow through. None of what she says has any value.
Vote however you want, but consider the consequences of your actions. Don’t just do what makes you feel like you’re superior to others. Do what is likely to help the most people. For example, even if we assume Palestinians will suffer equally under either (they won’t, but let’s assume), trans people, immigrants, and women will be much worse off under Trump.
Take responsibility for your actions. If you choose to throw away your vote, whatever happens after you are partially to blame for. You aren’t outside of society. You’re part of it. As such, you play a role in what comes next. Make your choice and make it one you won’t have to regret.
I’m aware of the mainstream opinion on 3rd party voting 😉 The issue is that it conflicts with the academic US historian consensus, which is that 3rd parties are responsible for major progressive policies, from women’s suffrage to social security. It’s possibly the most powerful vote one can make.
Tell me you don’t understand the influence AIPAC wields in American politics without telling me you don’t understand the influence AIPAC wields in American politics
Pull your head out of your ass. Harris has to tread carefully if she doesn’t want AIPAC to give a dump truck of money to Trump. Moreover, she has ZERO official capacity to define or enact international policy as the VP. And voting 3p increases the chance that Trump wins, and his idea of a “final solution” in Gaza will be a lot fucking closer to Bibi’s than a two-state solution, let alone a halt to the violence and apartheid. Trump’s likely to send a squadron of B-52s to Gaza and the West Bank to reduce them to rubble, then break ground on a new beachfront Trump Tower Gaza with a special land grant from Bibi.
But sure; ignore the context. Be part of the group that helps to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Let the fascists win. What could possibly fucking go wrong.
Harris already said her backing of Israel’s genocide is ironclad, and she’ll keep Biden’s bloodthirsty foreign policy intact. Trump can’t do “more genocide” because as you pointed out, AIPAC has secured every bomb they desire.
And sorry to nitpick but a two state solution is still apartheid. Everyone controlled by Israel deserves full citizenship.
I don’t think your perception of the dichotomy between the presidential candidates in this election - of which there are two, and only two - is fully moored in reality.
And that statement right there is how I know this is an absolutely useless debate. I’m willing to bet you think China and Russia are shining pillars of virtue, as the successor states to the Marxist ideals, or some such drivel.
I’m not going to stop trying to get people to vote for the only viable candidate in our country that can prevent Trump from winning and turning this place into a theocratic fascist kleptocracy. If you can’t/won’t understand that and get behind that goal, I honestly have nothing constructive or friendly to say to you.
The world is more than a single issue. Trump getting elected would be catastrophic in a whole fucking lot more ways than just Gaza, but he’d absolutely make that shitshow worse too. If I could wave a magic wand and stop what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, get rid of their ossified and entrenched leadership, and have the actual people who just want to fucking live figure out how to do that together, I would. But I can’t. You can’t either. Get off your fucking high horse.
If you believe we have a shred of democracy (which I personally doubt) then you believe that politicians are somewhat mutable by their constituency.
In that case, consider spending your time encouraging the candidates to support popular policy (No arms to Israel) rather than attempting to change the voters.
What am I spoiling? Either my candidate wins or one of the ethnic cleansing candidates wins. (I’m against ethnic cleansing)
“I don’t like murder, but I’m sure as hell not going to vote for the ‘less murder’ option! I’m going to keep my hands clean and help more murder happen instead.”
Not taking action is still a choice. Your convictions are sacraficed by not preventing the worse thing. In the trolley problem, not pulling the lever that saves lives is still a choice. You aren’t helping anyone by plugging your ears with your fingers. You’re only keeping your childish self-view intact. You didn’t actually do anything.
There is no lesser genocide. Israel is getting everything it wants currently, from Democrats.
You’re stupid if you actually buy that. You need to actually consider your position, not listen to whatever stupid stuff you’ve heard. That’s such a childish stance.
Yeah there is a difference.
Biden/Harris shrug off the rape prisons, decapitated children, bombed hospitals, etc. and publicly repeat some hasbara, then “leak” to the press that they’re secretly very angry and “working on a deal”. A few hours later they send Israel more bombs.
Trump, in contrast, would also send more US made bombs, except tweet that he’s “very happy” and the destruction is a “good deal”.
Trump would increase the amount we’re sending. He has said that Israel should “finish the job.” I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to know what effect your actions have. Figure it out. You don’t get to pretend like your hands are clean, because no matter what you do you made a choice and you’re a member of our society. You aren’t clean. Do what’s best for the people suffering, not for yourself. Being self-centered is not a virtue. It’s a flaw.
I acknowledge Trump uses frank, coarse rhetoric, however the result is the same: unlimited weapons and money for genocide. Trump can’t increase the amount we’re sending, as the current cap is a supply-chain issue. Unless he can magically turn money into tanks and bombs.
If you want to make this about Palestinians, consider why Jill Stein leads Harris among Palestinian Americans - especially in Michigan.
It’s large, but it isn’t unlimited. It’s also not supply-chain limited. We stockpile plenty, sell some, and are also giving some to Ukraine (which Trump will likely stop). Stop being so nieve.
First, I don’t really care. She is nothing except a spoiler taking Russian money.
Second, sure she says better things. She won’t do shit though because she has zero chance of winning. She’s able to say literally anything that benefits herself because there’s zero accountability because there’s no chance she’ll be required to follow through. None of what she says has any value.
Vote however you want, but consider the consequences of your actions. Don’t just do what makes you feel like you’re superior to others. Do what is likely to help the most people. For example, even if we assume Palestinians will suffer equally under either (they won’t, but let’s assume), trans people, immigrants, and women will be much worse off under Trump.
Take responsibility for your actions. If you choose to throw away your vote, whatever happens after you are partially to blame for. You aren’t outside of society. You’re part of it. As such, you play a role in what comes next. Make your choice and make it one you won’t have to regret.
I’m aware of the mainstream opinion on 3rd party voting 😉 The issue is that it conflicts with the academic US historian consensus, which is that 3rd parties are responsible for major progressive policies, from women’s suffrage to social security. It’s possibly the most powerful vote one can make.
Your actions suggest you’re interested in acting like you’re against it rather than stopping it
Yes, I think it’s important to act upon my convictions. If you have a strategy to stop it please share!
Tell me you don’t understand the influence AIPAC wields in American politics without telling me you don’t understand the influence AIPAC wields in American politics
Pull your head out of your ass. Harris has to tread carefully if she doesn’t want AIPAC to give a dump truck of money to Trump. Moreover, she has ZERO official capacity to define or enact international policy as the VP. And voting 3p increases the chance that Trump wins, and his idea of a “final solution” in Gaza will be a lot fucking closer to Bibi’s than a two-state solution, let alone a halt to the violence and apartheid. Trump’s likely to send a squadron of B-52s to Gaza and the West Bank to reduce them to rubble, then break ground on a new beachfront Trump Tower Gaza with a special land grant from Bibi.
But sure; ignore the context. Be part of the group that helps to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Let the fascists win. What could possibly fucking go wrong.
Harris already said her backing of Israel’s genocide is ironclad, and she’ll keep Biden’s bloodthirsty foreign policy intact. Trump can’t do “more genocide” because as you pointed out, AIPAC has secured every bomb they desire.
And sorry to nitpick but a two state solution is still apartheid. Everyone controlled by Israel deserves full citizenship.
I don’t think your perception of the dichotomy between the presidential candidates in this election - of which there are two, and only two - is fully moored in reality.
What non-NATO sources can you cite that explain the dichotomy? I’d love to know which candidates are against ethnic cleansing.
And that statement right there is how I know this is an absolutely useless debate. I’m willing to bet you think China and Russia are shining pillars of virtue, as the successor states to the Marxist ideals, or some such drivel.
Is this your first time encouraging people to vote for ethnic cleansing? How much of your time do you dedicate to rationalizing genocide?
Wow dude you are just a barrel of laughs.
I’m not going to stop trying to get people to vote for the only viable candidate in our country that can prevent Trump from winning and turning this place into a theocratic fascist kleptocracy. If you can’t/won’t understand that and get behind that goal, I honestly have nothing constructive or friendly to say to you.
The world is more than a single issue. Trump getting elected would be catastrophic in a whole fucking lot more ways than just Gaza, but he’d absolutely make that shitshow worse too. If I could wave a magic wand and stop what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, get rid of their ossified and entrenched leadership, and have the actual people who just want to fucking live figure out how to do that together, I would. But I can’t. You can’t either. Get off your fucking high horse.
If you believe we have a shred of democracy (which I personally doubt) then you believe that politicians are somewhat mutable by their constituency.
In that case, consider spending your time encouraging the candidates to support popular policy (No arms to Israel) rather than attempting to change the voters.