When Buayxiam (another Uyghur instructor) tells him about how their goal is also to get rid of religious extremism, she’s met with a very solemn WE CALL THAT BRAINWASHING from Sudsworth.
What should be done then? If there are Chinese citizens who subscribe to jihadist ideologies, shouldn’t an attempt be made to change their minds? Is that brainwashing?
Ah yes just a reeducation camp for terrorist jihadis. “Imperialist try not to paint Muslims who they want to suppress as terrorists difficulty level impossible”.
I’m not sure what the comparison to Guantamo after that is supposed to mean. I’m sure the Uyghur camps are better than Abu Ghraib and Guantanmo but that doesn’t mean much.
If there was nothing to hide they would have allowed the BBC to visit a facility of their choosing and other human rights organisations to enter and examine the area. Not allowing people to inspect only makes things look more suspicious.
The article further mentions a journalist confusing the location of a mosque they claimed was destroyed. That might be true in one instance. This FT article is filled to the brim with them though and it doesn’t look faked.
Imperialist try not to paint Muslims who they want to suppress as terrorists difficulty level impossible
I mean you did have terrorist attacks in China. Also the US delisting ETIM as an terrorist organisation tends to encourage that.
I’m not sure what the comparison to Guantamo after that is supposed to mean.
At least recite the full question being asked
What should be done then? If there are Chinese citizens who subscribe to jihadist ideologies, shouldn’t an attempt be made to change their minds? Is that brainwashing?
Or should they be considered a lost cause and sent to a Guantanamo type location?
I’m sure the Uyghur camps are better than Abu Ghraib and Guantanmo but that doesn’t mean much.
Vocational Training Centers where you learn mandarin and less radical interpretations of islam are indeed better approaches than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
If there was nothing to hide they would have allowed the BBC to visit a facility of their choosing and other human rights organisations to enter and examine the area. Not allowing people to inspect only makes things look more suspicious.
Why would they let the BBC that obviously doesnt give a shit about mulims (see reporting on Palestine)?
Why would they let western think thank financed NGOs in?
This FT article is filled to the brim with them though and it doesn’t look faked
An analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.
You asked for evidence of the cultural erasure of Islam in China and the FT article provides it in spades. There are also videos of protests against the renovation of said mosques.
Vocational Training Centers where you learn mandarin and less radical interpretations of islam are indeed better approaches than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
Where a family fully loses contact with their father for 8+ years because he suddenly “voluntarily signed up for vocational training”.
You have to choose between “the CCP is doing cultural Genocide against Muslims and they are all terrorists who need to be culturally assimilated”, or “there is nothing going on”. You can’t do both.
Just like those “terrorists” in the middle east that started attacking Americans in Iraq?
The Americans invaded Iraq, Xinjiang is part of China since the quing dynasty you. Comparing apples and oranges.
Also are you denying that terrorist attacks were not perpetrated by the Etim??
A Muslim that fights back against their colonialist oppressor. Suddenly the imperial oppressor has to get rid of those “terrorists”.
What no theory does to a mf. Also portraying communists as an outside force, where have I heard this type of rhetoric before? (It’s from facists)
Where a family fully loses contact with their father for 8+ years because he suddenly “voluntarily signed up for vocational training”.
Without context this is meaningless drivel. Provide a source
You have to choose between “the CCP is doing cultural Genocide against Muslims and they are all terrorists who need to be culturally assimilated”, or “there is nothing going on”. You can’t do both.
Cultural genocide is when you have the highest density of mosques and the preserving of Uyghur Arabic and ethnic assimilation is when you teach another language (without banning the native one)
Who is saying that they are all terrorists? And who is saying “nothing going on”?
You re saying “religious extremism and terrorist attacks are good actually and needs to be respected”
The Americans invaded Iraq, Xinjiang is part of China since the quing dynasty you. Comparing apples and oranges.
Someone drew some lines on a map 200 years ago when the concept of countries was invented. An entire culture should now be assimilated to match the lines on the map.
Israel must be a legitimate country too, someone drew some lines on a map. The British playbook strikes again.
Without context this is meaningless drivel. Provide a source
In the video linked previously right, right after the camp tour
Cultural genocide is when you have the highest density of mosques and the preserving of Uyghur Arabic and ethnic assimilation is when you teach another language (without banning the native one)
The most amount of mosques according to Google is indonesia. Source for your claim?
The articles about the mosque architectures being forcefully changed to be more “Chinese” against the will of the population does not support your claim.
Also are you denying that terrorist attacks were not perpetrated by the Etim??
I’m sure there was some seperatism. Which was subsequently exaggerated and hijacked as Imperalists to do push whatever agenda they want. The funniest part is how China literally did it together with America.
"Prior to 9/11, Chinese authorities had depicted Xinjiang as prey to only sporadic separatist violence. The Sept. 2, 2001 edition of Hong Kong’s Chinese language Ta Kung Pao newspaper quoted CCP officials in Xinjiang who stated “by no means is Xinjiang a place where violence and terrorist accidents take place very often,” and that the situation there was “better than ever in history.”
'Within months, China’s Xinjiang narrative lurched from that of a stable region withscattered elements of “separatists’’ to that of abattleground beset by al-Qaeda-funded terror groups. The U.S. governmentendorsed that rebranding by designating a then little-known entity, the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), as an international terror group."
‘Despite those inconsistencies, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage in September 2002 officially designated ETIM a terrorist entity. The U.S. Treasury Department bolstered that allegation by attributing solely to ETIM the same terror incident data, (“over 200 acts of terrorism, resulting in at least 162 deaths and over 440 injuries”) that the Chinese government’s January 2002 White Paper had attributed to various terrorist groups.’
'That blanket acceptance of the Chinese government’s Xinjiang terrorism narrative was nothing less than a diplomatic quid pro quo, Boucher said. “It was done to help gain China’s support for invading Iraq,” Boucher told the South China Morning Post. ’
Someone drew some lines on a map 200 years ago when the concept of countries was invented. An entire culture should now be assimilated to match the lines on the map.
Israel must be a legitimate country too, someone drew some lines on a map. The British playbook strikes again.
Ok thanks, at least I now understand your (anarchist?) perspective. Generally I’m with you with abolishing borders, but don’t see it realistically happening over night and the entire world at once. A socialist state needs to exists to protect it’s people from imperial forces. Also I’m going to disregard you call for the ETIM to have their own state (i.e. East Turkistan) with borders.
In the video linked previously right, right after the camp tour
Give me a timestamp. Not gonna watch BE kissing the imperial boot for one hour.
The most amount of mosques according to Google is indonesia. Source for your claim?
“In of 2014 there were 39,135 mosques in China,[1][2] in 2009 an estimated 25,000 of these were in Xinjiang, a north-west autonomous region, having a high density of one mosque per 500 Muslims.[3]”
The articles about the mosque architectures being forcefully changed to be more “Chinese” against the will of the population does not support your claim.
The article handselected and made “An analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.”
“Modified” being an obtuse way of saying “renovation”, so that the roof doesnt collapse and kills the worshipers. So not only do they hand sample a small amount of the total amount of mosques, they create an obtuse category of “modification” and destruction. I wonder why they don’t give the raw number of destroyed mosques if they seem to have the data?
The extent of terrorist violence in China during this period is not well known in the West. There were many attacks between 1990 and 2016 and not all of the information is yet available. A compilation of publicly-known attacks has been collected here. Some high-profile attacks are as follows:
➤ 2009 July 5 – The Urumqi Riots, 197 killed, 1700 wounded. Chinese investigations allege that the riots were enflamed by foreign entities such as the WUC to undermine regional stability and unity. As an aside, due to Facebook’s failure to provide information to the Chinese government following the attacks, Western social media was banned from China.
➤ 2013 October 28 – Tiananmen Attack, 5 killed, 40 wounded. Usmen Hasan, along with his mother and wife, drives a jeep through a crowd at Beijing’s Tiananmen Square before setting the vehicle on fire. Authorities find “extremist religious content” and a jihadi flag in the remains of the vehicle.
➤ 2014 March 1 – Kunming Train Station Attack, 31 killed, 141 wounded. Eight attackers burst into the city’s rail station, stabbing people at random before police arrive at the scene. Officials identify the leader of the group as Abdurehim Kurban, and state that insignias and flags worn by the attackers point to political involvement as “East Turkestan” separatists. The international community, including U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, joins China in denouncing the attack as an act of terrorism.
➤ 2014 May 22 – Urumqi Attack, 39 killed and 94 injured as attackers drive two cars into a crowded marketplace and throw explosives towards surrounding buildings.
➤ 2014 July 30 – Assassination of Imam Juma Tahir at the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers. Juma Tahir was the practicing imam of Id Kah, China
Which was subsequently exaggerated and hijacked as Imperalists to do push whatever agenda they want.
You keep using the term imperialist, it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
The funniest part is how China literally did it together with America.
Yeah America inciting the terrorist attacks, and when China doesn’t invade another country, they point the finger and say “genocide” and had to backtrack to “cultural genocide” because all evidence is paper thin. China not being able to prove a negative is in a losing position, especially against a hegemon
Do you mind sharing a source?
Sure here’s a great video with a timestamp of evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js&t=1643s
Ugh BE. Heres an analysis on the video tho
https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab
Ah yes just a reeducation camp for terrorist jihadis. “Imperialist try not to paint Muslims who they want to suppress as terrorists difficulty level impossible”.
I’m not sure what the comparison to Guantamo after that is supposed to mean. I’m sure the Uyghur camps are better than Abu Ghraib and Guantanmo but that doesn’t mean much.
If there was nothing to hide they would have allowed the BBC to visit a facility of their choosing and other human rights organisations to enter and examine the area. Not allowing people to inspect only makes things look more suspicious.
The article further mentions a journalist confusing the location of a mosque they claimed was destroyed. That might be true in one instance. This FT article is filled to the brim with them though and it doesn’t look faked.
I mean you did have terrorist attacks in China. Also the US delisting ETIM as an terrorist organisation tends to encourage that.
At least recite the full question being asked
Vocational Training Centers where you learn mandarin and less radical interpretations of islam are indeed better approaches than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
Why would they let the BBC that obviously doesnt give a shit about mulims (see reporting on Palestine)? Why would they let western think thank financed NGOs in?
Most Muslim countries see no wrong doing neither https://www.axios.com/2020/10/08/un-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang
Does the FT article mention that the highest density of mosques is in Xinjiang? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China
2,312 aint that much in China
Just like those “terrorists” in the middle east that started attacking Americans in Iraq?
And Israel also just needs to fight those “Scary Muslamic terrorists”. Nobody is being oppressed here guys! It’s just “getting rid of terrorism”.
A Muslim that fights back against their colonialist oppressor. Suddenly the imperial oppressor has to get rid of those “terrorists”.
You asked for evidence of the cultural erasure of Islam in China and the FT article provides it in spades. There are also videos of protests against the renovation of said mosques.
Where a family fully loses contact with their father for 8+ years because he suddenly “voluntarily signed up for vocational training”.
You have to choose between “the CCP is doing cultural Genocide against Muslims and they are all terrorists who need to be culturally assimilated”, or “there is nothing going on”. You can’t do both.
The Americans invaded Iraq, Xinjiang is part of China since the quing dynasty you. Comparing apples and oranges.
Also are you denying that terrorist attacks were not perpetrated by the Etim??
What no theory does to a mf. Also portraying communists as an outside force, where have I heard this type of rhetoric before? (It’s from facists)
Without context this is meaningless drivel. Provide a source
Cultural genocide is when you have the highest density of mosques and the preserving of Uyghur Arabic and ethnic assimilation is when you teach another language (without banning the native one)
Who is saying that they are all terrorists? And who is saying “nothing going on”?
You re saying “religious extremism and terrorist attacks are good actually and needs to be respected”
Someone drew some lines on a map 200 years ago when the concept of countries was invented. An entire culture should now be assimilated to match the lines on the map.
Israel must be a legitimate country too, someone drew some lines on a map. The British playbook strikes again.
In the video linked previously right, right after the camp tour
The most amount of mosques according to Google is indonesia. Source for your claim?
The articles about the mosque architectures being forcefully changed to be more “Chinese” against the will of the population does not support your claim.
I’m sure there was some seperatism. Which was subsequently exaggerated and hijacked as Imperalists to do push whatever agenda they want. The funniest part is how China literally did it together with America.
“How China hijacked the war on terror”
"Prior to 9/11, Chinese authorities had depicted Xinjiang as prey to only sporadic separatist violence. The Sept. 2, 2001 edition of Hong Kong’s Chinese language Ta Kung Pao newspaper quoted CCP officials in Xinjiang who stated “by no means is Xinjiang a place where violence and terrorist accidents take place very often,” and that the situation there was “better than ever in history.”
'Within months, China’s Xinjiang narrative lurched from that of a stable region withscattered elements of “separatists’’ to that of abattleground beset by al-Qaeda-funded terror groups. The U.S. governmentendorsed that rebranding by designating a then little-known entity, the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), as an international terror group."
‘Despite those inconsistencies, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage in September 2002 officially designated ETIM a terrorist entity. The U.S. Treasury Department bolstered that allegation by attributing solely to ETIM the same terror incident data, (“over 200 acts of terrorism, resulting in at least 162 deaths and over 440 injuries”) that the Chinese government’s January 2002 White Paper had attributed to various terrorist groups.’
'That blanket acceptance of the Chinese government’s Xinjiang terrorism narrative was nothing less than a diplomatic quid pro quo, Boucher said. “It was done to help gain China’s support for invading Iraq,” Boucher told the South China Morning Post. ’
Ok thanks, at least I now understand your (anarchist?) perspective. Generally I’m with you with abolishing borders, but don’t see it realistically happening over night and the entire world at once. A socialist state needs to exists to protect it’s people from imperial forces. Also I’m going to disregard you call for the ETIM to have their own state (i.e. East Turkistan) with borders.
Give me a timestamp. Not gonna watch BE kissing the imperial boot for one hour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China
“In of 2014 there were 39,135 mosques in China,[1][2] in 2009 an estimated 25,000 of these were in Xinjiang, a north-west autonomous region, having a high density of one mosque per 500 Muslims.[3]”
The article handselected and made “An analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.” “Modified” being an obtuse way of saying “renovation”, so that the roof doesnt collapse and kills the worshipers. So not only do they hand sample a small amount of the total amount of mosques, they create an obtuse category of “modification” and destruction. I wonder why they don’t give the raw number of destroyed mosques if they seem to have the data?
If you’re at all interested at the context:
https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
The extent of terrorist violence in China during this period is not well known in the West. There were many attacks between 1990 and 2016 and not all of the information is yet available. A compilation of publicly-known attacks has been collected here. Some high-profile attacks are as follows:
➤ 2009 July 5 – The Urumqi Riots, 197 killed, 1700 wounded. Chinese investigations allege that the riots were enflamed by foreign entities such as the WUC to undermine regional stability and unity. As an aside, due to Facebook’s failure to provide information to the Chinese government following the attacks, Western social media was banned from China.
➤ 2013 October 28 – Tiananmen Attack, 5 killed, 40 wounded. Usmen Hasan, along with his mother and wife, drives a jeep through a crowd at Beijing’s Tiananmen Square before setting the vehicle on fire. Authorities find “extremist religious content” and a jihadi flag in the remains of the vehicle.
➤ 2014 March 1 – Kunming Train Station Attack, 31 killed, 141 wounded. Eight attackers burst into the city’s rail station, stabbing people at random before police arrive at the scene. Officials identify the leader of the group as Abdurehim Kurban, and state that insignias and flags worn by the attackers point to political involvement as “East Turkestan” separatists. The international community, including U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, joins China in denouncing the attack as an act of terrorism.
➤ 2014 May 22 – Urumqi Attack, 39 killed and 94 injured as attackers drive two cars into a crowded marketplace and throw explosives towards surrounding buildings.
➤ 2014 July 30 – Assassination of Imam Juma Tahir at the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers. Juma Tahir was the practicing imam of Id Kah, China
You keep using the term imperialist, it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
Yeah America inciting the terrorist attacks, and when China doesn’t invade another country, they point the finger and say “genocide” and had to backtrack to “cultural genocide” because all evidence is paper thin. China not being able to prove a negative is in a losing position, especially against a hegemon