• Ferrous
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    ·
    1 month ago

    I mean, the $200 does encourage me to create a monopoly and simultaneously extract maximum wealth from my opponents while also taking their homes. Not sure if the monopoly analogy is useful here.

    UBI is capitalists’ best attempt at breathing life into capitalism. The benefits of UBI in the global north would still be at the expense of exploitation in the global south.

    • theneverfox@pawb.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 month ago

      It depends on how it’s implemented - if it’s just enough to patch the system for a while, it’ll just become a way to squeeze more out of people

      If it’s enough that work becomes optional, it’ll lessen the pressure enough that consumption will drop. More people will grow food, cook, and DIY everything from repairs to cottage handicrafts. They’ll have the time and energy to organize, politically and otherwise

      Regardless, UBI is a stopgap measure - it can just extend the game of capitalism a little longer, or it can be the start of a transition

      • Norah - She/They@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 month ago

        I think that definitionally a UBI is the latter, at least in my opinion. The point is that it elevates everyone to the same playing field, of having all essential needs covered (shelter, food, utilities, healthcare). Anything less is basically just the welfare systems that most countries (besides the US) already have. In Australia, unemployment is not enough to live on, it’s purposefully punitive to “encourage” people to find a job. Giving that same amount to everyone isn’t going to cover people’s basic needs.

        Side note: Healthcare is a basic need that everybody has. So, if a UBI were implemented in the US, it would need to be enough to cover people’s health insurance. At that point, the government’s already paying for it, so why not just implement universal healthcare?

        • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          At that point, the government’s already paying for it, so why not just implement universal healthcare?

          Because private health insurance companies are major donors, and no politician wants to upset the donor class?

    • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 month ago

      And even then UBI is just another form of maintaining this “unemployed reserve army”. Guaranteed jobs for every citizen capable and desiring to work, on exchange for a living wage, would automatically eliminate the people’s need to stay at shitty jobs or accepting shitty wages, since they can’t be easily replaced; it would increase production of goods and services much more than UBI, therefore tackling possible inflationary tendencies… It’s really a much better patch to capitalism than UBI

      • morrowind
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 month ago

        How does guaranteeing jobs make people any less replaceable?

        Also we have a crises of bs jobs. UBI would help lower it a lot. Guaranteed jobs would make it ten times worse

        • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 month ago

          How does guaranteeing jobs make people any less replaceable

          Because there’s constantly a labor shortage instead of a pool of millions of unemployed people

          Also we have a crises of bs jobs. UBI would help lower it a lot. Guaranteed jobs would make it ten times worse

          Why would guaranteed jobs make it worse? Guaranteed jobs could be decided upon (at the very least partially) by local neighborhood councils. Care for children and for old people, cleaning the streets, building new housing… Even if 50% of jobs created were “redundant” (which is impossible), that’s still 50% of actual useful labor compared to 0% of UBI

          • morrowind
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 month ago

            You’re just describing communism at this point. We’re looking for practical solutions

            • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 month ago

              Practical solutions like the ones we’ve been failing to implement for the past 50 years of erosion of labor rights and welfare state all over the western world?

              • morrowind
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 month ago

                UBI hasn’t been tried on large scale anywhere. In small scales it’s been successful

                • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 month ago

                  Exactly my point, it hasn’t been implemented anywhere because capital will fight tooth and nail against it, and they’re, well, the owning class, so they have plenty of power. My point is we can’t reform our way into solving social and economic justice and fixing climate change