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I favorize democratic socialism. And I admit that China does some things right. I just refuse to call a government democratic that (for example) forbids the word Tiannanmen Square. As a German I know well about fake democracy.
But thanks for the links. I will thoroughly check them. Maybe indeed that I learn something new.
I don’t mean to say China is some sort of a perfect society. The reality is that all human societies are flawed in some way, and Chinese system is more restrictive in some ways than western ones. However, you also have to keep in mind that a lot of things you hear about China in the west are outright fabrications. For example, here’s Tienanmen footage that was broadcast on state TV in China.
Doing what’s good for the majority is another word for a benevolent dictator.
And “the majority thinks it’s a democracy” is not the same as a democracy.
Democracy is well-defined. It envolves separation of power, more than one party, freedom of press etc.
You fail to understand that democracy is a method, a structure. You seem to think democracy is an opinion/decret/result.
Selection and election means undemocratically preventing free votes.
And very high rates of popularity lets me question the presence of a
democratic process. Because democracy means arguing heavily. But some Chinese seem to prefer denying disagreement.
So you can tell a million times “We/they are democratic” but still
fail. Declaring a goat as a cow is wrong even if millions of people
tell so.
Doing what’s good for the majority is another word for a benevolent dictator.
I’m not sure what point this is addressing. The resources I provided show how people are elected to their positions based on their work and competing with many other people.
And “the majority thinks it’s a democracy” is not the same as a democracy. Democracy is well-defined. It envolves separation of power, more than one party, freedom of press etc.
Please give your definition of democracy. I get the impression that you’re conflating democracy with parliamentary democracy which is a poor implementation of the concept.
You fail to understand that democracy is a method, a structure. You seem to think democracy is an opinion/decret/result.
No, I gave you my definition of democracy earlier which is a government that works in the interest of the majority and that is accountable to the majority. The second part is very important, the public has leverage over their government and the government is answerable to the public. This is the case in China and it is not the case in western countries.
Selection and election means undemocratically preventing free votes.
That does not follow, and parliamentary democracy is not a direct democracy either.
And very high rates of popularity lets me question the presence of a democratic process. Because democracy means arguing heavily. But some Chinese seem to prefer denying disagreement.
That’s a strange argument to make. You’re claiming that the public that sees the government work in their interest and improve their lives is supposed to disapprove of the government?
You’re falsely equating approval with debate. In fact, it’s demonstrably the case that China has much healthier debate than the west. Deng reforms are a great example of this. The party honestly acknowledged that their approach wasn’t working well and learned from the west. This would be the equivalent of a western government seriously integrating Marxist principles into the system.
So you can tell a million times “We/they are democratic” but still fail. Declaring a goat as a cow is wrong even if millions of people tell so.
You have not made any convincing argument that China is not democratic in your reply. You seem to simply equate the concept of democracy with the implementation you’re used to.
In fact, I will posit that capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy and no capitalist country can be called such. One of the primary decisions made in a society is regarding the purpose of work. In a capitalist society, people who own capital decide how and why work is done by virtue of owning the means of production. This is fundamentally an undemocratic process.
By virtue of having all the core industry under public control China is infinitely more democratic than any western country.
“and that is accountable to the majority. The second part is very important,” Then at least we a agree on that. Your former posting gave me the impression you don’t think so.
Just one thing: Having just one party is a mock democracy.
The number of parties is completely tangential to the concept of democracy. You’re once again mistakenly equating parliamentary democracy. There are plenty of alternative implementations of the concept, and there is absolutely no indication that parliamentary style actually works well. Please read up on democratic centralism which is the style of democracy practiced in China.
I favorize democratic socialism. And I admit that China does some things right. I just refuse to call a government democratic that (for example) forbids the word Tiannanmen Square. As a German I know well about fake democracy.
But thanks for the links. I will thoroughly check them. Maybe indeed that I learn something new.
I don’t mean to say China is some sort of a perfect society. The reality is that all human societies are flawed in some way, and Chinese system is more restrictive in some ways than western ones. However, you also have to keep in mind that a lot of things you hear about China in the west are outright fabrications. For example, here’s Tienanmen footage that was broadcast on state TV in China.
I watched the viseos/texts. Sorry but I disagree.
Doing what’s good for the majority is another word for a benevolent dictator.
And “the majority thinks it’s a democracy” is not the same as a democracy. Democracy is well-defined. It envolves separation of power, more than one party, freedom of press etc.
You fail to understand that democracy is a method, a structure. You seem to think democracy is an opinion/decret/result.
Selection and election means undemocratically preventing free votes.
And very high rates of popularity lets me question the presence of a democratic process. Because democracy means arguing heavily. But some Chinese seem to prefer denying disagreement.
So you can tell a million times “We/they are democratic” but still fail. Declaring a goat as a cow is wrong even if millions of people tell so.
Then we disagree on what a democracy is.
I’m not sure what point this is addressing. The resources I provided show how people are elected to their positions based on their work and competing with many other people.
Please give your definition of democracy. I get the impression that you’re conflating democracy with parliamentary democracy which is a poor implementation of the concept.
No, I gave you my definition of democracy earlier which is a government that works in the interest of the majority and that is accountable to the majority. The second part is very important, the public has leverage over their government and the government is answerable to the public. This is the case in China and it is not the case in western countries.
That does not follow, and parliamentary democracy is not a direct democracy either.
That’s a strange argument to make. You’re claiming that the public that sees the government work in their interest and improve their lives is supposed to disapprove of the government?
You’re falsely equating approval with debate. In fact, it’s demonstrably the case that China has much healthier debate than the west. Deng reforms are a great example of this. The party honestly acknowledged that their approach wasn’t working well and learned from the west. This would be the equivalent of a western government seriously integrating Marxist principles into the system.
You have not made any convincing argument that China is not democratic in your reply. You seem to simply equate the concept of democracy with the implementation you’re used to.
In fact, I will posit that capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy and no capitalist country can be called such. One of the primary decisions made in a society is regarding the purpose of work. In a capitalist society, people who own capital decide how and why work is done by virtue of owning the means of production. This is fundamentally an undemocratic process.
By virtue of having all the core industry under public control China is infinitely more democratic than any western country.
Yes we disagree on what democracy is.
“and that is accountable to the majority. The second part is very important,” Then at least we a agree on that. Your former posting gave me the impression you don’t think so.
Just one thing: Having just one party is a mock democracy.
The number of parties is completely tangential to the concept of democracy. You’re once again mistakenly equating parliamentary democracy. There are plenty of alternative implementations of the concept, and there is absolutely no indication that parliamentary style actually works well. Please read up on democratic centralism which is the style of democracy practiced in China.