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If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?

I’m kinda confused about who is supposed to be who…

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The actual top answers to the questions seem to be reasonable tbh. IDK what you’re getting at here.

I almost stopped reading at the first four words, tbh.

But I also think that “shaming” as a tactic hasn’t succeeded because of the material conditions of men in society, of course.

In considering material conditions, there is what one is able to do as a consequence of the position that they hold in relation to others; and there is what one needs to do in order to secure their survival & posterity. If it is always a conflict between the personal agency of women & the ability of men to secure their livelihoods, then most men are always going to at some level resent that agency, or the choices made with it. Hence, the drive to create a Patriarchal society.

Dissolving that drive is a challenge of reconciling the ability of men to meet their material needs, with the freedom & agency of women.

Edit: I should clarify that this is meant to engage with the question of how to stop men being personally misogynistic, not how to empower women to combat it. These are two different questions, with different answers, although the latter is probably more important historically.

So the ones who are salvageable will change after some shaming… and those who aren’t won’t be saved.

What is this Christian Evangelical/Calvinist nonsense?

One podcast episode will never hook these people to listen to more: the strategy must begin elsewhere (like shaming or women denying them their objectification) so that reflection is required. But that reflection is most successful when they are confronted directly.

I’m gonna be direct with you here, no amount of personal or public shaming has ever gotten me to change any view I’ve ever had; definitely not from strangers on the internet. It usually just makes me see whoever is trying to shame me as a personal enemy, not somebody to suck up to. The only time I’ve ever actually changed my opinion on anything (with regards to fundamental values & not simple “facts about the world”) is when they either directly conflicted with me achieving my own goals, or it resulted in somebody I care about getting hurt & I felt bad about that.

I don’t think that shaming men is going to result in any kind of general shift in behavior, especially since that’s kind of been the default way of engaging with men from a Feminist position generally for as long as it’s been a thing. You have to highlight either how it actively impedes them from achieving what they want, or harms people they actually care about.

Sounds scandalous, tbh.

I was assuming that they would be fresh, and unsyruped pancakes.

I wonder if it would be comfortable or gross to sleep on a pancake bed. 🤔

Ur boss.

Jesse, wake up!

it’s pretty easy for people to become lonely losers in an anonymous, world class city and it’s pretty easy to learn the names and relation to capital of most people in a tiny rural village within a few weeks and a few conversations.

the interface matters less than the person and their will to meet and connect with others.

I think that different localities can effect different people, differently. Granted this is mostly moot at an individual level, because we have very little control over the social contexts we end up living in; but like humans are kind of born instinctually wanting social connection with others. It’s the inability to pursue or receive it, that leads to people learning to live without it; or hardening themselves against it.

you can be the most deadly tier 1 operator to ever live, trained in every martial art known to man, and a ball of pure muscle and freakish dense bones with crazy reach

…and still be dropped by a semi-coordinated group of willowy, gangly attackers (with a plan of attack) that combined might only barely hit your weight class

I would contest that this is entirely dependent on what the state of weapons & armaments technology of the day is. It’s not as if Knightly Castes have never been an effective paradigm. But either way this dude was jumped by like 30 people, seemingly of both men & women. The personal qualities of whoever is being entrapped is not the most relevant factor in this situation.

(article was linked below, by the way)

Fair enough, I had not seen that it had been linked in the thread before I started responding to your post, and after having read the article I can now conclude that this is way more insane than what either of us seem to be arguing for.

Apparently this was a coordinated ambush by at least 30 campus students of mixed company (that is to say both men & women), and they were actually students at a private Roman Catholic college. So while I’ll concede that this is probably not a consequence of “Age Gap Discourse”, I also don’t think you can credibly reduce it to “Angry Young Men Venting Misogyny”. This is actually like some kind of insane Youth Q-Anon Brigade.

I know of a not-insignificant portion of young misogynistic guys who are angry at women their age for dating older guys instead of them. They were around even when I was the age of the guys in this article and that was a while ago. I always felt like that fed into a lot of guys buying into the Alpha Male discourse that come around later. Probably related to incels too, but not sure which came first.

I do not deny that there are lots of men who get mad about women dating other men, for lots of reasons. My issue here is with the unevidenced assertion (we don’t have the original article here) that this assault specifically is being driven primarily by that specific specie of brainworms. People like to ascribe every bad thing that happens only to their opponents, and never to flaws in their own house.

You mean the conspiracy theory that

Yes, I’m aware of that. It’s also an obviously unrelated form of brainworm to what’s going on here.

I would figure maybe this was caused in part by conservative Catholic anti-sex brainworms and young guys feeling ownership of women their age and jealous that their classmates are dating older guys instead of being their Catholic trad wife. Hook up with a guy a few years older and we’ll lynch his ass? That’s the message.

I mean, c’mon here. The people who have been yelling about “age gaps” for the last 4+ years have not been Conservative Catholics & Incels. This is 100% a “cultural-left”, radlib phenomenon.