The problem isn’t that their random is biased or has rules, the is that it is entirely deterministic, to the point where it will play the same exact songs, in the same exact order for days. It’s as if shuffle just activates a hidden “shuffle” playlist that only updates once a week.
I’d guess that every time user presses “shuffle” they just shuffle the playlist and never change the order afterwards. So song order is really not random it’s shuffled
Yep, I know what you’re talking about, but spotify weights songs it thinks you’ll like higher than other songs, and with big playlists it really is a noticeable problem. There are services that shuffle the order of your playlist, so then in spotify you play it with spotifys shuffle turned off, and yes there are “patterns” that I notice (one song I had in their twice, I think like a single version and album version, was right next to itself), but at least I actually hear songs I haven’t heard in a long time, and I don’t get the same ones regularly
Yes, that was what I was getting at. Not having true random is one thing, I understand (and like) that implementation. Apple has been doing it since the first few iPods. But Spotify “shuffle” isn’t near even, it is exactly even, as in “if you shuffle play this playlist twice two days in a row, it will play the exact same order”. Which is why people are complaining about Spotify specifically.
That’s not what I’m doubting here. I was raising awareness to the fact that a computer physically cannot be truly random. I know that pseudorandomness is enough as we cannot perceive a difference easily.
Humans think real random isn’t random 🙃
It’s wild but they see patterns
The problem isn’t that their random is biased or has rules, the is that it is entirely deterministic, to the point where it will play the same exact songs, in the same exact order for days. It’s as if shuffle just activates a hidden “shuffle” playlist that only updates once a week.
I’d guess that every time user presses “shuffle” they just shuffle the playlist and never change the order afterwards. So song order is really not random it’s shuffled
You and I might be talking about different things.
I mean that humans don’t like theoretically true random, as a cool side note
You seem upset about one implementation
Also, shuffling and having something appear near even though you throught it was shuffled is part of that finding patterns
Yep, I know what you’re talking about, but spotify weights songs it thinks you’ll like higher than other songs, and with big playlists it really is a noticeable problem. There are services that shuffle the order of your playlist, so then in spotify you play it with spotifys shuffle turned off, and yes there are “patterns” that I notice (one song I had in their twice, I think like a single version and album version, was right next to itself), but at least I actually hear songs I haven’t heard in a long time, and I don’t get the same ones regularly
Yes, that was what I was getting at. Not having true random is one thing, I understand (and like) that implementation. Apple has been doing it since the first few iPods. But Spotify “shuffle” isn’t near even, it is exactly even, as in “if you shuffle play this playlist twice two days in a row, it will play the exact same order”. Which is why people are complaining about Spotify specifically.
Randomness is lumpy as one mathematician put it.
Well, computers physically cannot be random, they rely on logic
CSPRNGs are a thing…
As are radioactive sources
And there’s mathematical tests for whether something is random enough
So no, computers really can do random xD
CSPRNG literally stands for “cryptographically secure pseudorandom number generator”. All randomness in computers is pseudorandom. Not TRULY random
Radioactive sources for randomness aren’t really just put into your average household PC or phone either for obvious reasons.
A CSPRNG is more than random enough for a playlist xD
Take it from someone who works in the field - computers do random well enough rotflol
That’s not what I’m doubting here. I was raising awareness to the fact that a computer physically cannot be truly random. I know that pseudorandomness is enough as we cannot perceive a difference easily.