A federal appeals court on Tuesday struck down Maryland’s handgun licensing law, finding that its requirements, which include submitting fingerprints for a background check and taking a four-hour firearms safety course, are unconstitutionally restrictive.

In a 2-1 ruling, judges on the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond said they considered the case in light of a U.S. Supreme Court decision last year that “effected a sea change in Second Amendment law.”

The underlying lawsuit was filed in 2016 as a challenge to a Maryland law requiring people to obtain a special license before purchasing a handgun. The law, which was passed in 2013 in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, laid out a series of necessary steps for would-be gun purchasers: completing four hours of safety training that includes firing one live round, submitting fingerprints and passing a background check, being 21 and residing in Maryland.

Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, a Democrat, said he was disappointed in the circuit court’s ruling and will “continue to fight for this law.” He said his administration is reviewing the ruling and considering its options.

  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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    What other right do we put behind fingerprinting and coursework. Do you lose your right to remain silent if you don’t take a fucking course? No, the federal courts are bringing this right in line with the others.

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      Exercising your first amendment rights doesn’t kill in most instances. In instances that it can, such as inciting violence, it stops being protected speech

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        It doesn’t even have to be fatal. If it incites panic or causes misuse of emergency services, it’s a crime baby.

        • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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          And just like with 1A rights we have laws that limit those effects of 2A rights, just as it should be. Just as you can’t go around inciting panic with your words, you can’t legally brandish a firearm in public to incite panic. ETC.

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        Exactly. If you murder someone, you will also not be protected by the right to keep and bear arms. In general, instigating harm against others is never covered by rights.

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          Now if only we could implement some sort of way to maybe check if someone has some disqualifying action in their past so we can make sure that right is adequately protected without risk of further harm. Maybe we could have like a check in the person’s background and make sure they know how to use it properly so we know they aren’t falling into the wrong hands.

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            Nope, that won’t work. Sigh. Looks like there’s “no way to prevent this.” Crazy that this is the “only nation where this regularly happens.”

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            Are you assuming that someone who knows they are not allowed to carry would go through a BG check and Finger prints…in order to be told they can’t carry? Really??? That’s the logic you’re going with?

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              Are you assuming they’d stay away from buying guns if there wasn’t a verification system? That the honor system would work here?

      • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
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        Yet we don’t license speech on the grounds that inciting violence isn’t protected.

        Owning guns does not guarantee gun violence. Most of the time it seems to be gross negligence.

        We license people to drive, yet look at how many bad drivers there are.

        This is a callous stance, but I think the left needs to shut the fuck up about guns. All it does is galvanize the right wing and drive them straight to the polls. Gun regulation does not win elections and there are so many more pressing problems. Fact of the matter is gun violence, while tragic, statistically isn’t something worthy of losing elections over. Climate change, education, healthcare, all are higher stakes issues with far more lives at risk.

        Edit: down vote all you want, the elections will still be lost and the supreme court will continue to be irreparably stacked against you. I don’t know how much more evidence you need that the left needs tactics, guile, and strategy. The Right is playing chess while the left is making a sandwich. They aren’t even playing the same game.

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          You nailed it, if the left put political capital into things that would actually curb the violence, and left the guns alone, they would sweep elections constantly.

          • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
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            Exactly. And most of the left usually argues that gun violence is a mental health issue anyway. Which means if we tackled the bigger issues you’d see a marked decline in gun violence without passing a single gun related law. Gun violence is a symptom. Let’s fight the disease.

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                Kinda proves my point actually. Winning elections is the overall goal that must be addressed first. When we lose, we literally regress.

    • Wogi@lemmy.world
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      We no longer need a well regulated militia, we have a permanent standing army capable of answering any threat, anywhere in the world within 24 hours.

      Might be time for an update on the ole constitution, the problems of 1780 aren’t really the problems we have today.

      • FireTower@lemmy.world
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        Maybe if we still had a more militia like system we wouldn’t be engaged in an eternal state of war in countries across the globe. The Founding Father’s critiques of standing armies were made because they didn’t want to become what they overthrew.

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          Sure, and we can debate the merits of that all day. Fact is that right now the US’ primary export is force, our primary industry is war, and far behind that is literally anything else.

          I would love if we cut the size of the military to admit a tenth of it’s current size, and spent all of that money on social programs.

          As it happens, that would probably cripple the American economy for decades.

          But if you can figure out how to uncouple the US from it’s military industrial complex, going to a Swiss militia style home defense network wouldn’t be a bad idea. Give everyone a rifle, require they train with it so many hours a year, call it good.

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        The Constitution is not a sacrosanct document, we’ve major changes before, including repealing amendments. We shouldn’t be afraid of changing it if it’s doing more harm than good. The President and Vice President are elected differently now, the 3/5ths compromise was repealed by the 14th Amendment, and 18th Amendment, enacting Prohibition, was struck down by the 21st.

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          It’s my belief that the reason nobody has seriously tried to change the Constitution to remove or modify the 2nd amendment is that they know it’s currently impossible. Changing the Constitution requires a serious amount of working together and agreement between the state and federal governments, and that just doesn’t exist right now.

          That’s why some states are trying to pass unconstitutional laws, it’s easier to do that and get away with it at least for a little bit than it is to change the construction.

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        The second amendment also doesn’t create a well regulated militia.

        What use is a militia of morbidly obese men who can’t even demonstrate basic firearm safety, whose entire contribution is “have gun”?

        I don’t know why we’re suppose to politely play along with the hero fantasies of people who wouldn’t even wear masks in a pandemic but insist they’d lay down their lives to liberate people from the fascists that they enthusiastically voted for.

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        The well regulated militia that’s referenced in the amendment is the army. That’s what the amendment is meant to protect us from.

        • AbidanYre@lemmy.world
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          You think the second amendment is to protect us from what it calls “necessary to the security of a free State”?

          You might want to go read it again.

          • Ebennz
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            Yes, you need a military to defend your country from other countries. And yes, it’s to protect us from an oppressive government. Remember the revolutionary war lil buddy?

              • Ebennz
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                Aw someone realized they are wrong

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              If a government does any oppressing, it’s almost always done with its military, not in spite of it.

              • Ebennz
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                No shit. That’s what the second amendment is for

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                  Wait, so you’re arguing that the second amendment is designed for arming an oppressive military?

                  • Ebennz
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                    No, the second amendment is designed to enable citizens to protect themselves in the event of an oppressive military.

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      Exactly! It’s not like we put our Voting Rights behind IDs and fees and make people lose that right if they’re in prison!

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        I’m no expert, but it’s my understanding that you need ID and have to pay fees for guns outside of the gunshow loophole.

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        Voting isn’t actually a constitutional right like owning firearms is. There are protections about equality when it comes to voting, but not much about voting itself. States are generally given the right to decide who can vote and how they vote.

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      Yeah. It’s too bad we are stuck with this albatross of 2A making it impossible to put reasonable restrictions on gun ownership. Clearly that was a mistake.

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        You are wrong, and it’s good that we have such strong protections on our inherent rights to effective self defense.

        Fortunately, there’s nothing you can do about it as well.

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          The longer guns continue being a problem, the likelier we get to electing the legislative body needed to pass a new amendment canceling the 2A in its entirety. The longer it stands, the harder it gets to pass the compromise measures needed to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people, and so the problem keeps getting worse.

          • Ebennz
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            Can’t wait for only billionaires and their armed thugs to be the only ones able to defend themselves

          • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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            You should really read up about the amendment process. It’s not something that Congress can do by itself, it requires 75% of the 50 states to ratify it after the initial hurdles. It’s not going to happen, because there will always be at least 13+ states that will vote to keep the 2nd Amendment, and that’s a good thing. You should be happy that our rights are safe, because it’s pretty fuckin’ hard to get new rights, you know they don’t just hand out new ones regularly.

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            Unenumeration of a once recognized right, wouldn’t give congress the authority to inhibit people from practicing that right.

            The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. -9th Amendment

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            A different Supreme Court could redecide settled law just like Roe v Wade. If 2A needs to die to keep guns out of dangerous hands, then it needs to die. The absolute refusal to compromise means eventually they’ll lose everything. Okay.

            I don’t have a problem with responsible gun ownership. You’d think they’d make some compromises to soften the resolve of the anti-gun crowd. I wouldn’t be with them if we had sane laws, but here we all are.

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          Astounding how the “well regulated” part of the second amendment is simply washed away by gun zealots.

        • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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          You are wrong, and it’s good that we have such strong protections on our inherent rights to effective self defense.

          “Good” how? Because it makes your pee pee tingly? Americans are less safe from criminals, tyrants and the monthly “legal gun owner opening fire on a crowd” than anyone in comparable countries.

          Fortunately, there’s nothing you can do about it as well.

          Make buying a gun without proper checks and training a felony, remove the guns as evidence of a crime, try those responsible in a court and if they’re convicted, congratulations, you’re now a felon who has been shown due process then stripped of their rights.

          Or just stop voting Republican. Personally, I don’t care if “responsible gun owners” want to die in a hail of bullets after shooting at innocent people, just because it was democratically decided that the “responsible” part shouldn’t be voluntary.

          After all, would we even notice a difference? Legal gun owners are already responsible for 80% of mass shootings.

          • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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            Why are you bringing your weird penis thoughts into a discussion about the constitutional rights of US citizens? Keep that to yourself, because it’s gross.

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      But the right to bear arms is in no way in line with the others. Freedom of speech makes sense. Equal treatment of all citizens by the government does also. The right to play with guns is in no way comparable to this.

      Please answer me this: why should you have the right to play with guns, with few if any restrictions, when it is clear that everyone having such a right directly leads to death? Why is your right to have fun more important than other peoples’ lives?


      Edit: Why is it that no one can justify why they should have guns?? Did you trade your balls in to buy your gun?

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        People need to realize that the 2A is simply obsolete. It’s irrelevant talking about original intention when that is totally irrelevant to the modern world. It’s an inevitability that the 2A goes away. The only question is how it removed.

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          Australia have done pretty well with it all. Pay people money for their guns, then fine people if they still have them outside the law.

          Handguns in particular are completely unnecessary. They don’t shoot very accurately, they only exist to perpetuate violence between people.

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      What other right lets you mutilate a room full of children beyond recognition or execute your abused partner on a whim?

      There’s few things that upset “responsible gun owners” more then the idea that they might actually have to be responsible.

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        If gun owners were an issue…the 500 million firearms in civ hands means you’d know about it.

        • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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          It’s the pro-gun crowd that insist no systems are enacted to separate “idiots” and “domestic terrorists” from “responsible gun owners”, so you’re either going to have to take responsibility for them or finally agree to changes that single them out.

          Maybe if you can’t come to an agreement with the rest of the country, you could come to some kind of agreement with the mass shooters instead?

          They want to shoot children, the pro-gun community has children, and the pro-gun community believes that some children should be shot if it means maintaining the current gun laws.

          That should settle things down until you’ve finished building your mental health utopia where its safe to give a gun to any man, woman or child, at any time, because you’ve completely cured violent impulses forever.

          If gun owners were an issue…the 500 million firearms in civ hands means you’d know about it.

          We do know about it. The entire world knows about it. That’s literally what this whole conversation is about.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            It’s the pro-gun crowd that insist no systems are enacted to separate “idiots” and “domestic terrorists” from “responsible gun owners”, so you’re either going to have to take responsibility for them or finally agree to changes that single them out.

            Yes, please in your Almighty wisdom tell us how you would enact this?

            Maybe if you can’t come to an agreement with the rest of the country, you could come to some kind of agreement with the mass shooters instead?

            The rest of the country? You do realize that people who are gun owners are the majority right? There are way more people who own them, then not. Mass shootings are a recent phenomenon, not something that has been happening for forever and it’s all the guns fault. We’ve been armed for a long time, hell kids used to bring their rifles to school so they could go hunt afterwards, and this was less than 40 years ago that kids were doing this.

            They want to shoot children, the pro-gun community has children, and the pro-gun community believes that some children should be shot if it means maintaining the current gun laws.

            Ah yes here it comes the tried and true method of dehumanizing your opponent…you think an AWB will stop school shootings…and because I don’t think it will and that we need to focus on why they happen and solve that, you slam down the “ok with kids being shot”…how original.

            That should settle things down until you’ve finished building your mental health utopia where its safe to give a gun to any man, woman or child, at any time, because you’ve completely cured violent impulses forever.

            You know the thing that bothers me most about you anti-2a types?..you automatically assume you’re debating a white right wing republican…

            My wishlist of how to heavily curb all violence in this country starts with:

            Single payer

            Ending the war on drugs

            Ending for profit prisons

            Ending qualified immunity

            Paying teachers more

            Building more schools and hiring more teachers so class sizes can get back down to like 10-15 kids a classroom vs 30+

            Making sure everyone has safety nets in place (think ubi)

            Making sure all kids are heavily protected by these safety nets, so they don’t turn to gangs

            I’ve got more but this is a good start.

            We do know about it. The entire world knows about it. That’s literally what this whole conversation is about.

            No…no you don’t…2/3rds of our gun deaths are suicides…the remaining 3rd has around 85% as gang/drug violence, then domestic violence and then police killing people and self defense… the last tiny bit is mass shootings… it’s basically a rounding error it’s so small.

            • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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              Yes, please in your Almighty wisdom tell us how you would enact this?

              Most mass shooters have a history of domestic violence, but the pro-gun community opposes disarming domestic abusers.

              Most mass shooters have a history of red flags, but the pro-gun community opposes disarming people with red flags.

              But really, you seem to have misunderstood whose problem this is to solve. It’s not the people who support gun control doing all the mass shootings, its legal gun owners (or the children of legal gun owners).

              If you want me to solve it, I’m more than happy to, bur you’re not going to like it.

              The rest of the country? You do realize that people who are gun owners are the majority right?

              The majority of Americans support stricter gun legislation. basically any time they’re asked.

              Mass shootings are a recent phenomenon, not something that has been happening for forever and it’s all the guns fault

              You mean the last 20 years, during which you’ve let the problem spiral further and further out of control, despite insisting that you have the answers?

              That percentage also won’t be going down as all the children you sold out graduate and have to face sending their own children off to play mass-shooting roulette.

              We’ve been armed for a long time, hell kids used to bring their rifles to school so they could go hunt afterwards, and this was less than 40 years ago that kids were doing this.

              Then jump in your time machine and fuck off back there, because that America no longer exists.

              If you think you can rebuild it, go right ahead. Until then, gun legislation isn’t even remotely close to handling the America of today and needs to be addressed immediately.

              Ah yes here it comes the tried and true method of dehumanizing your opponent…you think an AWB will stop school shootings

              Oh no, you’re mistaking me for a politician tip-toeing around a death cult. I’d ban all semi-automatic firearms from being privately owned, because they’re the weapons of choice for criminals and terrorists.

              It’s not even remotely close to worth it. All the pro-gun promises turned out to be lies and fantasies.

              because I don’t think it will and that we need to focus on why they happen and solve that, you slam down the “ok with kids being shot”…how original.

              How many innocent lives are your gun laws worth then? Because we’ve got the numbers and you’ve done nothing, so I just assumed it was more than that.

              My wishlist of how to heavily curb all violence in this country starts with

              Damn, looks like you’ve got a fuckload of work ahead of you before it’s safe to sell guns to people again. Better get started.

              2/3rds of our gun deaths are suicides

              Means reduction has worked for every form of suicide it’s targeted.

              the remaining 3rd has around 85% as gang/drug violence

              The they get their guns from the magic gun fairy, or did they steal then from “responsible gun owners” who left their guns poorly secured?

              Or did they just buy one because “haven’t been convicted of a felony yet” is a trivial bar to clear? Or maybe they just bought one privately without a background check at all, because that’s a feature that pro-gun cultists insist on?

              then domestic violence

              Which again, the gun lobby doesn’t consider grounds for disarming someone.

              the last tiny bit is mass shootings… it’s basically a rounding error it’s so small.

              Weren’t you objecting to the “okay with kids being shot” label just a few sentences ago? Because calling murdered people a “rounding error” sounds exactly like someone who is okay with kids getting shot.

              As long as they’re not yours apparently.

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                That percentage also won’t be going down as all the children you sold out graduate and have to face sending their own children off to play mass-shooting roulette.

                Your mass shooter drills, where you scare the living hell out of every child in America, are backfiring on you. In their teens, these kids are learning that they don’t have to be defenseless targets. They are learning that they can, indeed, fight back. By the time they are 18-21, these kids are buying guns, so they never have to feel like they did when you barricaded them in a room and told them to pretend someone was trying to kill them.

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                  Yeah they’re not going to fall for “standing up to us makes us stronger so you should stop”, nor “this is why 5 year olds need guns”. You’re just another gun owner living in a fantasy world.

                  They’re fully aware of who is responsible for arming school shooters and exactly those people respond to being told “you need to stop arming school shooters”.