Senior men have higher rates of suicide than average, and firearms were involved in more than three-quarters of those deaths in 2021, according to a CDC report
Senior men have higher rates of suicide than average, and firearms were involved in more than three-quarters of those deaths in 2021, according to a CDC report
The real issue is that assisted suicide is basically illegal in the USA…you turned it into a gun issue…
how do you see these alarming suicide rates and think " oh we should give them a better way to kill themselves " instead of " why in the hell is that many people wanting to die???"
Because if you understand the stats, the majority of people who are committing suicide are older, and more than likely have a illness they no longer want to live with. I’m all for single payer, but I’m not here to tell someone they should suffer when they want to take their life. That’s not mine or your choice.
Its a gun issue because most people see that as the “easiest” way of achieving it because they haven’t done even cursory basic research into effective suicide methods.
Just because it is illegal doesn’t mean a gun is the only option.
Guns are used in dumb fits of passion because it is easy and at-hand for a lot of people.
If someone wants to off themself, they’re going to do it whether they have a gun or not. Look at Japan, higher suicide rate than the US, virtually no guns in their society. Americans typically use guns because it’s quick and available. Even if guns weren’t available, suiciders are gonna suicide. So yeah, it absolutely is not a gun issue, it’s a societal issue, be it depression or lack of availability of assisted suicide.
Not supported by science nor statistics. There is no better way to reveal that not only are you not an expert, you havent even made a token effort to be informed.
Instead, you’ve just assumed you know everything there is to know about suicide prevention without looking and what a surprise, it just happens to align with whats most profitable for the gun lobby.
So you’re saying that if I wanted to suicide I won’t if I don’t have a gun. What an odd take.
This sounds like the terrible logic of banning abortion. If we ban abortion then women won’t have abortions. /S
No that this is sarcasm because legalizing abortion has saved many women’s lives
its not that odd. pressing a trigger is much easier than hanging yourself or cutting yourself or jumping. this is a fact. plus many people attempt suicide and fail and some of them dont attempt anymore. with a gun the chances of not being successful are very low.
“with a gun the chances of not being successful are very low.”
This is a wild statement anything the back of this one up. I might learn something but I’m not going to take your word for it. I need a source.
https://www.gvpedia.org/gun-myths/more-lethal/
Till you provide a source I’m going with this source
Good luck with that
Not just me, but everybody involved in suicide prevention. It doesn’t matter how unintuitive you find it, means reduction works.
Suicide is an impulse and when people have access to guns, they can act on that impulse in minutes, if not seconds. It’s painless and requires zero preparation time.
What other method even comes close?
You might have the tools to slit your wrists, but it hurts, it’s easy to get wrong, takes much longer than you’d think and sucks the entire time.
It’s also extemely difficult to seriously injure yourself on purpose. Most people have heard of “hesitation marks” but nobody has heard of “hesitation gunshots”, because they’re not a thing.
Okay, so what about hanging? For most people, step 1 is going to be Googling “how to tie a noose”, which will immediately present them with local suicide prevention resources.
So fuck it, lets head outside.
Maybe jump off something high? How long would it take you to get to a bridge or building that would definitely be fatal? Would you need to drive? Would you need directions? Could you leave without anybody asking where you were going? Once you got there, could you climb on the edge without being seen by passers by, all of whom will immediately try and help you or call someone who can.
And of course once you were looking out over the edge, could you do it? It’s terrifying and a very primal survival instinct will tell you to stop. Even once you jump, you’re still not arriving at oblivion faster than someone with a gun would.
Maybe you could overdose on something? The 90s made it look so cool. But of course, few people have fatal amounts of drugs just laying around and for most people, it’s far quicker and easier to go to a gun store.
So whats left? Shit that practically nobody does, despite the pro-gun community insist every suicide method is the same. People don’t gouge their eyes to get to their brain or feed themselves into a tablesaw.
No, it doesn’t sound like that at all, you just want to signal to others that you’re not right wing but still love guns.
But sure, we can stick with that analogy. Do women who aren’t pregnant still have abortions? Do they just find another medical proceedure to have instead?
If you’re pro gun, there’s no use pretending “saving womens lives” is a thing you care about. 70 women are shot and killed by their partners each month, over 4 million report being threatened with a gun.
Abusers with access to guns are 5x more likely to kill their partners and guess what the gun lobby does? Openly opposes domestic abusers losing their guns.
Two counter points:
First is gunpowder is a weapon that does level playing field between two people who have different amounts of strength. What I mean is a 6foot 250 lb muscle builder is just as deadly as a 90 year old grand ma.
You have to acknowledge that point even if I agreed to your points.
Unlike all other weapons strength doesn’t matter for a gun. Basic biology that women are physically weaker than men. Yes some suggested that a woman shooting a guy in self-defense should be legal and mostly is.
The second is is you are wildly wrong about having access to drugs. I’m surprised you are suggesting that the average American household doesn’t have a lethal dose in their medicine cabinet.
Sure, in some bizarre labratory conditions that don’t reflect reality, the body builder and the grandma have equal capacity to murder anyone they want.
But that’s almost never how it plays out. Do you know who actually wins in that matchup? Whoever is the shittest person.
Is the grandma deeply racist and the body builder black? Then all my money is on the grandma. Is the body builder far-right and opening fire on a family having a day out with grandma? Then all my money is on the Nazi.
But of course, we don’t have to talk about convoluted hypothetical scenarios. The pro-gun community had dictated the gun laws for 25 years, promising shit like “a level playing field” the entire time, despite it been a deeply fucked way of describing people fighting for their lives.
So why are none of these promises coming true? Why are women and minorities less safe in America compared to other wealthy countries? Why are the crime rates in America basically the same despite tolerating children being executed en masse every few months?
If these gun laws keep us safe from tyranny, why are there fascists preparing for an election, enthusiastically cheered on by the the pro-gun community?
When they inevitably lose and arrange their next attack on the Capitol, puffing their chests out with pro-gun pride and executing anyone who stands in their way, are you going tell us just how level the playing field was?
Most of then also have a lethal amount of bleach too but believe it or not, most suicidal people would rather not torture themselves to death.
Just because something is theoretically fatal doesn’t mean it’s a suicide risk.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had depressed friends off themselves after years of trying to talk them off the ledge. I don’t give two fucks what your statistics or science say about it, I’ve lived it. So eat a bag of dicks and shut the fuck up about shit you’ve only read about on the internet.
Edit: down vote all you want you little removed. I sincerely hope you take that attitude to someone in real life and they kick the absolute shit out of you, maybe then you’ll realize your sheltered view of the world doesn’t align with reality. Go touch grass.
Glorious. Downvotes are actually publicly visible on Lemmy and it wasnt me, but sure, go off.
Don’t get embarassed though, you’re still very big and scary and the “go touch grass” still hurts my feelings no matter how many times right wing reactionaries use it, because I’m that insecure.
I sincerely want to be sympathetic because I do know what thats like.
But its easy enough to swallow that compassion when I remember that you’re only pulling out that trauma and heartbreak to defend gun laws that rob thousands of people of the chance to escape that same fate.
Because you don’t get to “talk people off the ledge” when they have a gun. There is no ledge. Those critical opportunities for help and self-reflectance, that have saved thousands of people from bridges, rooftops and bathtubs full of blood, are all lost.
And the people talked off ledges don’t just find another ledge. Only 1 in 10 people who survive a suicide attempt go on to die by suicide, but the survival rate of self inflicted gunshot wounds is functionally zero.
Its why, if someone you care about is struggling with depression or trauma, the very last thing you should do is give them a gun.
Fortunately for the gun-lobby, the only people gun owners seem to care about is themselves, no matter now many of their children blow their brains out with daddy’s poorly secured firearm that he bought to “keep his family safe”.
it was obvious to all of us :)
Wow…yes it’s the guns fault, not that our society is so fucked that people are offing themselves like crazy…naa it’s the gun doing it. The fuck outta here.
I didn’t say it was the guns fault. Even if we fixed a boatload of societal problems, guns still don’t help these situations, and you’d still have people using them because they’re available.
The idea that they don’t contribute to the problem is laughable.
They do, but they are not the root cause, and focusing on them is a distraction.
It’s not a distraction though.
The vast majority of attempted suicide survivors regret ever trying. They get help and live better lives.
When someone is in a bad state of mind or having a depressed episode that is the time when they are most vulnerable.
Having easy access to an immediate life ending device with the squeeze of a trigger is a major problem.
This is the reason jump nets and barriers work on bridges. Making it slightly harder or more inconvenient to kill themselves saves lives.
As someone who lives in the UK where only farmers can get a gun to protect livestock from dangerous wildlife( which hate on me all you want is a valid reason to own a firearm and not just as a fancy toy to show off like Americans). Statistics show that men tend to use more brutal methods of suicide so not having guns makes no difference because they will simply use a different fatal method. So as someone who lives in a country that has a lot of suicides and no guns for the average joe. Removing guns has solved nothing in terms of suicide.
So please draw info from other countries before making assumptions about how a law would change your country, because otherwise it’s very narrow minded, and you will waste time and lives trying to make a solution that already has no effect abroad.
As someone who lives in the UK where only farmers can get a gun to protect livestock from dangerous wildlife( which hate on me all you want is a valid reason to own a firearm and not just as a fancy toy to show off like Americans). Statistics show that men tend to use more brutal methods of suicide so not having guns makes no difference because they will simply use a different fatal method. So as someone who lives in a country that has a lot of suicides and no guns for the average joe. Removing guns has solved nothing in terms of suicide.
So please draw info from other countries before making assumptions about how a law would change your country, because otherwise it’s very narrow minded, and you will waste time and lives trying to make a solution that already has no effect abroad.
Its not a distraction – it’s an immediate, measurable solution to a growing problem, that absolutely nobody is suggesting is the entire solution.
Meanwhile, what have the pro-gun groups that insist they (and they alone) have the solution suggested?
Video games. Marilyn Manson. Rock and rap music. Not enough prayer. Too many doors. Abortion. Legalised weed. Women. Drag Queens and gay marriage. COVID vaccines. Critical race theory. Not enough people having guns.
And what a surprise, every single one of those excuses is just blatantly something they want to attack anyway, using the “look what you made me do” excuse loved by manipulative abusers everywhere.
The boomers blame popular culture. The fundamentalists blame secularism and abortion. The fascists blame minorities. The neoliberals blame their donors not making enough money.
After 25 years of offering nothing by distractions, some marketing genius thought of “mental health”, which is at least part of the problem.
But of course their take away isnt “clearly we are not mentally healthy enough as a society for such permissive gun laws”, nor even “we should do something about the mental health problems are facing”.
Instead, it’s “Other people should build a mental health system that is mandatory for every man, woman and child in America, even if they don’t want help. It has to cure mental health problems, even those beyond our ability to treat, instantly and so completely that they will never relapse, even for a second. Also, we are going to obstruct your efforts every step of the way politically, legally and by telling children they’re less important that inanimate objects used to kill and oppress people”.
Because the idea was never to fix the problem, the idea was to create something that would distract people for 200 years, so the money would keep rolling in.
But don’t worry if the skepticism has already started to creep into your brain with intrusive thoughts like “does this mean we train soldiers to be mentally ill?” or “are they trying to say that being a right wing reactionary like most mass shooters (and gun owners) is actually a mental illness?”…
MTG has already come out and blamed mass shootings on the medication we use to treat mental health problems, ensuring gun owners still have the backup distraction of “too much mental healthcare”, ready to be used the day people meet their impossible prerequisites for gun control.
typical “buh muh guns” response