Dude it’s Occam’s razor. Why would the Israelis target hospitals and ambulances without them being used by Hamas? You’re claiming both the Israelis and the US government are lying about that without evidence. I think it’s far more likely that genocidal religious fanatics who have demonstrated that they don’t care about the rules of war, civilian casualties, or protecting their populace are using hospitals and ambulances for military staging in line with reports about available intelligence. It’s in line with their behavior.
And while the Israelis haven’t exactly been too careful about collateral damage, they have consistently attempted to target military targets. Otherwise, if they were trying to kill civilians, why the hell would they order an evacuation of the conflict zone and give civilians time to get free?
Why would the Israelis target hospitals and ambulances without them being used by Hamas?
To make Gaza uninhabitable so they are all forced away from Northern Gaza into Southern Gaza, and eventually become refugees in Egypt. Then, steal the land for themselves. Gaza has always been a thorn in their side. Why wouldn’t they want it gone? Occam’s Razor dude, the simplest explanation for why they kill civilians is because that’s the point.
Otherwise, if they were trying to kill civilians, why the hell would they order an evacuation of the conflict zone and give civilians time to get free?
They’re also bombing people who evacuated the conflict zone and the refugee camps, so.
As for motivation, they would prefer to forcibly transfer the population of Gaza and not actually kill them all. Partially because that would be bad for morale, partially because it would destabilize international relationships, and mostly because it would trigger a regional war with every country in the region calling for blood. Even if they don’t all die, forced transfer through mass killing is genocide.
To make Gaza uninhabitable so they are all forced away from Northern Gaza into Southern Gaza, and eventually become refugees in Egypt.
That’s ridiculous, they don’t need to bomb hospitals for that. Shit, they don’t need to bomb at all, they can just occupy Gaza. Which they might do, I mean, we are at the “find out” stage and Hamas has surely fucked around, but it’s generally a bad idea to start wars you can’t win.
They’re also bombing people who evacuated the conflict zone and the refugee camps, so.
Yeah they’re bombing anywhere that Hamas is.
and mostly because it would trigger a regional war with every country in the region calling for blood.
I really don’t think it would. It would probably trigger a conflict with Hezbollah and militants from the West Bank, but I don’t think there’s a universe where Egypt or Jordan have an appetite for going to war to protect Palestinian interests. Neither nation is interested in that can of worms. Neither Lebanon nor Syria have anything approaching the means to prosecute a war.
That’s ridiculous, they don’t need to bomb hospitals for that. Shit, they don’t need to bomb at all, they can just occupy Gaza. Which they might do, I mean, we are at the “find out” stage and Hamas has surely fucked around, but it’s generally a bad idea to start wars you can’t win.
They can’t occupy Gaza and that’s why they left. Underestimating Hamas is how the Oct 7th attack happened, you wanna do that again?
I really don’t think it would. It would probably trigger a conflict with Hezbollah and militants from the West Bank, but I don’t think there’s a universe where Egypt or Jordan have an appetite for going to war to protect Palestinian interests. Neither nation is interested in that can of worms. Neither Lebanon nor Syria have anything approaching the means to prosecute a war.
They wouldn’t do it for Palestinian interests, they’d do it satisfy their own population so they don’t revolt. They have a lot of Palestinians that live in their countries and have family. Don’t forget about Qatar and Iran, since they’re Hamas allies. Also Turkey seems to be saber rattling a lot recently too. Don’t count out Iraq or Afghanistan either, they may not be able to contribute much but they’re no friend of Israel.
And it’s certainly in Russia’s interests for this war to blow up and entangle the US so it stops paying attention to Ukraine.
You underestimating the danger of a larger regional war, but I think Israel knows this and that’s why they’re trying for forcible transfer instead.
They can’t occupy Gaza and that’s why they left. Underestimating Hamas is how the Oct 7th attack happened, you wanna do that again
I think Israel isn’t going to be willing to leave Gaza until Hamas is destroyed or degraded past the point of it being a serious threat. Which I get. Oct 7 was unconscionable.
They wouldn’t do it for Palestinian interests, they’d do it satisfy their own population so they don’t revolt.
Dude, in both of those countries, Palestinians are a maligned minority and the government is not friendly with extremist religious orgs which would be sympathetic to the kind of genocidal goals of Hamas. Hamas gets their support mainly from individuals in the Arabian peninsula and Iran - neither of which can prosecute a war, the first because the countries there are too busy being fat and rich, the second because of geographical distance and their insistence on the use of proxies.
Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have the capability to do anything here. What is the Taliban going to do, try to airlift some mountain jihadis with rifles in to the West Bank through hostile airspace? They’re not friendly with Iran, and it’s not like they have great relations with Iraq or Syria. Iraqi politicians know not to bite the hand that feeds (the US) and are openly hostile to religious extremist nationalism in ISIS. They also don’t have the capability to prosecute a war against anyone other than maybe Syria, so, it’s just not happening.
I think Israel isn’t going to be willing to leave Gaza until Hamas is destroyed or degraded past the point of it being a serious threat
Can you see them destroying Hamas without killing hundreds of thousands of people? Hamas is of the people, the democratically elected government. Can Hamas be exterminated without also exterminating Gaza? Can it be done without genocide?
Dude, in both of those countries, Palestinians are a maligned minority and the government is not friendly with extremist religious orgs which would be sympathetic to the kind of genocidal goals of Hamas.
And in both those countries the masses are losing their fucking minds because a genocide is happening just across the border. The ruling class may not have an interest in fighting Israel or have sympathy for Hamas, but the overwhelming majority of the masses clearly do. Also, I notice you glossed over how it is very obviously in Russia’s interests to see this blow up into a regional war. Oh and look, Russia has a tight relationship with Bashar al-Assad, yet another player that could involve itself in a regional conflict.
I’m not saying a regional conflict is inevitable (I think it’s likely, but we could avoid it maybe), I’m saying if Israel tried killing everyone in Gaza it absolutely would become a regional war. This forcible population transfer, which is clearly happening and I’m not even sure how you can deny it, is a compromise position. And it’s still genocide.
Then it’s going to get messy, isn’t it? Hamas should probably surrender so the war can end.
If Hamas surrenders they just go back to being slowly squeezed to death. There’s no good outcomes for them.
Death by a thousand cuts or death from missile strikes.
Dude my best friend is Egyptian and no they are not
I didn’t realize your friend spoke for all of Egypt!
Well Egypt’s president is using the Israel-Gaza war to build up popular support and rally the masses behind his unpopular government, actively fomenting protests and demonstrations against Israel and in support of Palestinians. He’s actively riling people up and that has consequences, especially when he then turns around and beats the same protesters he lured into the streets! That’s happening on top of their debt crisis and economic troubles! Even if Egypt never gets involved, Israel’s war might destabilize Egypt itself. Oops!
This has the potential to spill over and the fact that you refuse to believe it just means you’ll be caught flat footed when it happens. I hope what Israel is doing doesn’t get your friend hurt.
If Hamas surrenders the blockade can end and Gaza can have an economic future - if, that is, the people of Gaza put a group interested in building that future into power and not another group interested in genocidal conquest of Israel.
That’s happening on top of their debt crisis and economic troubles! Even if Egypt never gets involved, Israel’s war might destabilize Egypt itself. Oops!
You’re right about the debt crisis within Egypt, but likely what’s going to happen there is that the IMF will bail them out with the condition that the military owned enterprises which the state subsidizes will be privatized. They’re a serious source of economic malaise, as is the construction of the new administrative capital. The most serious threats here to Egyptian stability is if there is actually a major refugee influx, which would strain the state, and if the economic problems form a tipping point into a depression for the country.
Dude it’s Occam’s razor. Why would the Israelis target hospitals and ambulances without them being used by Hamas? You’re claiming both the Israelis and the US government are lying about that without evidence. I think it’s far more likely that genocidal religious fanatics who have demonstrated that they don’t care about the rules of war, civilian casualties, or protecting their populace are using hospitals and ambulances for military staging in line with reports about available intelligence. It’s in line with their behavior.
And while the Israelis haven’t exactly been too careful about collateral damage, they have consistently attempted to target military targets. Otherwise, if they were trying to kill civilians, why the hell would they order an evacuation of the conflict zone and give civilians time to get free?
To make Gaza uninhabitable so they are all forced away from Northern Gaza into Southern Gaza, and eventually become refugees in Egypt. Then, steal the land for themselves. Gaza has always been a thorn in their side. Why wouldn’t they want it gone? Occam’s Razor dude, the simplest explanation for why they kill civilians is because that’s the point.
They’re also bombing people who evacuated the conflict zone and the refugee camps, so.
As for motivation, they would prefer to forcibly transfer the population of Gaza and not actually kill them all. Partially because that would be bad for morale, partially because it would destabilize international relationships, and mostly because it would trigger a regional war with every country in the region calling for blood. Even if they don’t all die, forced transfer through mass killing is genocide.
That’s ridiculous, they don’t need to bomb hospitals for that. Shit, they don’t need to bomb at all, they can just occupy Gaza. Which they might do, I mean, we are at the “find out” stage and Hamas has surely fucked around, but it’s generally a bad idea to start wars you can’t win.
Yeah they’re bombing anywhere that Hamas is.
I really don’t think it would. It would probably trigger a conflict with Hezbollah and militants from the West Bank, but I don’t think there’s a universe where Egypt or Jordan have an appetite for going to war to protect Palestinian interests. Neither nation is interested in that can of worms. Neither Lebanon nor Syria have anything approaching the means to prosecute a war.
They can’t occupy Gaza and that’s why they left. Underestimating Hamas is how the Oct 7th attack happened, you wanna do that again?
They wouldn’t do it for Palestinian interests, they’d do it satisfy their own population so they don’t revolt. They have a lot of Palestinians that live in their countries and have family. Don’t forget about Qatar and Iran, since they’re Hamas allies. Also Turkey seems to be saber rattling a lot recently too. Don’t count out Iraq or Afghanistan either, they may not be able to contribute much but they’re no friend of Israel.
And it’s certainly in Russia’s interests for this war to blow up and entangle the US so it stops paying attention to Ukraine.
You underestimating the danger of a larger regional war, but I think Israel knows this and that’s why they’re trying for forcible transfer instead.
I think Israel isn’t going to be willing to leave Gaza until Hamas is destroyed or degraded past the point of it being a serious threat. Which I get. Oct 7 was unconscionable.
Dude, in both of those countries, Palestinians are a maligned minority and the government is not friendly with extremist religious orgs which would be sympathetic to the kind of genocidal goals of Hamas. Hamas gets their support mainly from individuals in the Arabian peninsula and Iran - neither of which can prosecute a war, the first because the countries there are too busy being fat and rich, the second because of geographical distance and their insistence on the use of proxies.
Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have the capability to do anything here. What is the Taliban going to do, try to airlift some mountain jihadis with rifles in to the West Bank through hostile airspace? They’re not friendly with Iran, and it’s not like they have great relations with Iraq or Syria. Iraqi politicians know not to bite the hand that feeds (the US) and are openly hostile to religious extremist nationalism in ISIS. They also don’t have the capability to prosecute a war against anyone other than maybe Syria, so, it’s just not happening.
Can you see them destroying Hamas without killing hundreds of thousands of people? Hamas is of the people, the democratically elected government. Can Hamas be exterminated without also exterminating Gaza? Can it be done without genocide?
And in both those countries the masses are losing their fucking minds because a genocide is happening just across the border. The ruling class may not have an interest in fighting Israel or have sympathy for Hamas, but the overwhelming majority of the masses clearly do. Also, I notice you glossed over how it is very obviously in Russia’s interests to see this blow up into a regional war. Oh and look, Russia has a tight relationship with Bashar al-Assad, yet another player that could involve itself in a regional conflict.
I’m not saying a regional conflict is inevitable (I think it’s likely, but we could avoid it maybe), I’m saying if Israel tried killing everyone in Gaza it absolutely would become a regional war. This forcible population transfer, which is clearly happening and I’m not even sure how you can deny it, is a compromise position. And it’s still genocide.
Then it’s going to get messy, isn’t it? Hamas should probably surrender so the war can end.
Dude my best friend is Egyptian and no they are not
If Hamas surrenders they just go back to being slowly squeezed to death. There’s no good outcomes for them.
Death by a thousand cuts or death from missile strikes.
I didn’t realize your friend spoke for all of Egypt!
Well Egypt’s president is using the Israel-Gaza war to build up popular support and rally the masses behind his unpopular government, actively fomenting protests and demonstrations against Israel and in support of Palestinians. He’s actively riling people up and that has consequences, especially when he then turns around and beats the same protesters he lured into the streets! That’s happening on top of their debt crisis and economic troubles! Even if Egypt never gets involved, Israel’s war might destabilize Egypt itself. Oops!
This has the potential to spill over and the fact that you refuse to believe it just means you’ll be caught flat footed when it happens. I hope what Israel is doing doesn’t get your friend hurt.
If Hamas surrenders the blockade can end and Gaza can have an economic future - if, that is, the people of Gaza put a group interested in building that future into power and not another group interested in genocidal conquest of Israel.
You’re right about the debt crisis within Egypt, but likely what’s going to happen there is that the IMF will bail them out with the condition that the military owned enterprises which the state subsidizes will be privatized. They’re a serious source of economic malaise, as is the construction of the new administrative capital. The most serious threats here to Egyptian stability is if there is actually a major refugee influx, which would strain the state, and if the economic problems form a tipping point into a depression for the country.