• FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social
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    8 months ago

    “Sweden has never before seen anything like this,”

    Sweden has since sharply restricted migration levels, citing rising crime levels and other social problems.

    I’m personally very pro immigration and think we need to get better at it as climate refugees become more common.

    How did things get so bad in Sweden? Like, did they fail to facilitate integration or was there an abnormally high level of criminals among their immigrant population?

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Failure to integrate is the right answer. At some point immigrant children ceased to have proper access to proper socio-economic status and a parallel society developed which, Scandinavians being Scandinavians, the majority ignored. It’s been a difficult time for the prospects of youth in general but that hit the immigrant population way harder as they’re not as embedded in the local social network, no “cousin of a parent owns a repair shop he’ll give you a job and tide you over”.

      Active xenophobia isn’t even needed, all that’s need is a failure to see and care. It’s also generally a urban problem, both because not enough care was taken to encourage immigrants to not be urbanites (a common bias with arrivals is that “city is where the jobs are, rural areas are shitholes” which isn’t at all true for Europe in general), as well as urban society generally being ass at reaching out to people, smaller places are way more tight-knit.

      Of course, with shit having hit the fan xenophobia then becomes an issue of its own reinforcing the very issues that caused everything, and down the shitchute we go.

      • Murvel@lemm.ee
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        8 months ago

        At some point immigrant children ceased to have proper access to proper socio-economic status and a parallel society developed which, Scandinavians being Scandinavians, the majority ignored

        Where is your support for such a claim? All Swedish citizens, regardless of ethnicity or any other factor, have free access to and abundance of social support:

        • Free Healthcare
        • Free education, including university (you get paid to study)
        • Free work coaching and multitude of enrollment programs
        • Free financial support for unemployed
        • Favorable loans and cheap student housing

        In Sweden, you do not get forced into the life of a criminal, it’s a choice you make. But in order to integrate, you must be willing, and therein lies the root of the problem.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          In Sweden, you do not get forced into the life of a criminal, it’s a choice you make.

          No but you might get forced into the life of a perpetually unemployed, be looked down on by nearly everyone the whole of your life. Note how I said “status”, not just “money”. Noone lives for money alone.

          But in order to integrate, you must be willing, and therein lies the root of the problem.

          Again these cop-outs. What you say doesn’t even begin to make sense. How is someone willing or not willing the root of the problem? That people are or are not willing has causes! Find your root there, continue to investigate, don’t cut off you interest at the exact point where you can blame everything on someone else.

          • Murvel@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            Immigrants have the same possibilities as everyone else in Sweden.

            So if it’s not their willingness to integrate, what is it then?

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              I already explained why the possibilities are not the same. Are you going to address that directly, or just assume I don’t remember what I said?

              • Murvel@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                You said:

                At some point immigrant children ceased to have proper access to proper socio-economic status

                What does that even mean, give us an example is what I’m saying.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  Do you want me to explain what socio-economic status means? Because I already explained the access part. I also explained, elsewhere in this thread, that it doesn’t simply mean money.

                  But long story short: It’s what long-term unemployed don’t have. At least not in current European societies.

            • FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social
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              8 months ago

              My god. I live in the country I was born in and even I can see that the odds are not stacked equally for immigrants. Sorry, but it’s hard to take your comment in good faith, hence the downvote.

            • KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              8 months ago

              It’s hard to even know what to say to this… Everything you’ve been saying has been pretty disingenuous, I think it’s called virtue signalling.

              • Murvel@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                Lol, Ok thats funny. And what virtue would that be?

                • KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  8 months ago

                  It’s equal opportunity bro, everyone has exactly the same opportunities, foreigners are treated just as well as Swedes, the only reason they’re not succeeding is because they’re lazy immigrants ofc… So fucking whack.

    • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Some people come from different cultures with higher levels of crime. They come to Sweden and they aren’t automatically going to be model Swedes, just keeping doing what they do at home but now in another country. Or it gets worse because they don’t see it as their country.

      • FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        They shouldn’t have to become “Swedes” to be considered acceptable. Do we have good data on certain countries having higher crime rates than others? Because often with these measurements, they are done differently in each country, making comparisons difficult.

        • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          If they moving to Sweden then yea they kinda should become swedes at least the following generations.

          Funny you should say that Sweden used to keep data on things like skin colour and nationality but the data that came out if it gave fuel to people saying certain nationalities cause more crime. Now it’s unreported.