Its worth understanding that if there is no hope of rescuing or releasing the hostage, all you are doing is giving them time to regroup. This is why, particularly in the 70s and 80s, many countries (famously the US) took a “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” stance. It was determined that the terrorist groups had no intention of ever releasing the hostages and your option was to attack immediately or wait, watch a few hostages get executed, and attack a fortified position.
But, under those circumstances, you have troops on the ground seeking out the hostages. And the IDF have no signs of having done this so…
They’re literally saying “you still not be forgotten” while bombing the shit out of Gaza even though most are still alive and some have been released. They’re nothing more than a casus belli. Israel doesn’t give a shit.
The “air support” isn’t support, because they haven’t made a serious push into Gaza yet. And even if they had, they’re not killing many Hamas fighters. Many of them will be in the vast network of tunnels, which no amount of US-supplied munitions can reach. Even the deepest penetrating bunker buster we have can barely reach those tunnels, and as far as I’ve seen in news reports, we haven’t provided them any of those because we don’t have many to begin with due to their specialty use. For that matter, I don’t think Israel has bombers capable of carrying them anyway, since they weigh over 27,000lbs per munition.
So all that bombing is doing little except killing civilians.
Are you seriously trying to argue that those tunnels are at least 200 feet underground? Buildings don’t matter to these munitions, solid packed earth does.
Those tunnels are at best 6 to 10 feet underground, and could be breached with standard munitions, bunker busters aren’t needed, as Hamas hasn’t had the funding or materials to concrete line the walls to bunker specifications.
No, I’m not arguing that, the US government is arguing that, based upon tunnels the IDF’s Yahalom unit has found, including one that was found in 2022 that was supposedly at least 230 feet deep. I haven’t the foggiest idea how deep those tunnels go, I’m getting my information from the US and Israeli government. It’s entirely possible they’re exaggerating the depth for propaganda purposes, or even under exaggerating.
The paper from West point I read also said the tunnels were primarily prefabricated concrete sides and ceilings. So either you’re wrong, or the IDF is.
Get the fuck out here with the “don’t negotiate with terrorists” shit. Had Israel not negotiated with terrorists then they wouldn’t have exchanged 1000 Hamas fighters, including the current head of Hamas in Gaza, sitting 4x life-long, for a single IDF soldier.
That shit only works if it’s doctrine and you don’t ever the fuck blink. Which is the right way to go about things, but also not what Israel did, especially Likud governments: Instead they’ve been sappy and emotional about it, milking it for votes.
Also right now the families of hostages are the #1 critics of Netanyahu’s government.
Get the fuck out here with the “don’t negotiate with terrorists” shit. Had Israel not negotiated with terrorists then they wouldn’t have exchanged 1000 Hamas fighters, including the current head of Hamas in Gaza, sitting 4x life-long, for a single IDF soldier.
Clearly it was a bad idea to deviate from Hannibal Doctrine in hindsight. I suspect this value was in mind when Hamas kidnapped all those civilians.
Its worth understanding that if there is no hope of rescuing or releasing the hostage, all you are doing is giving them time to regroup. This is why, particularly in the 70s and 80s, many countries (famously the US) took a “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” stance. It was determined that the terrorist groups had no intention of ever releasing the hostages and your option was to attack immediately or wait, watch a few hostages get executed, and attack a fortified position.
But, under those circumstances, you have troops on the ground seeking out the hostages. And the IDF have no signs of having done this so…
They’re literally saying “you still not be forgotten” while bombing the shit out of Gaza even though most are still alive and some have been released. They’re nothing more than a casus belli. Israel doesn’t give a shit.
I think the sheer size of this attack proves they give a shit, but they aren’t willing to sacrifice more people by going in without air support.
They’re bombing the places the hostages are being held. They don’t give a shit.
The “air support” isn’t support, because they haven’t made a serious push into Gaza yet. And even if they had, they’re not killing many Hamas fighters. Many of them will be in the vast network of tunnels, which no amount of US-supplied munitions can reach. Even the deepest penetrating bunker buster we have can barely reach those tunnels, and as far as I’ve seen in news reports, we haven’t provided them any of those because we don’t have many to begin with due to their specialty use. For that matter, I don’t think Israel has bombers capable of carrying them anyway, since they weigh over 27,000lbs per munition.
So all that bombing is doing little except killing civilians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP
Are you seriously trying to argue that those tunnels are at least 200 feet underground? Buildings don’t matter to these munitions, solid packed earth does.
Those tunnels are at best 6 to 10 feet underground, and could be breached with standard munitions, bunker busters aren’t needed, as Hamas hasn’t had the funding or materials to concrete line the walls to bunker specifications.
No, I’m not arguing that, the US government is arguing that, based upon tunnels the IDF’s Yahalom unit has found, including one that was found in 2022 that was supposedly at least 230 feet deep. I haven’t the foggiest idea how deep those tunnels go, I’m getting my information from the US and Israeli government. It’s entirely possible they’re exaggerating the depth for propaganda purposes, or even under exaggerating.
The paper from West point I read also said the tunnels were primarily prefabricated concrete sides and ceilings. So either you’re wrong, or the IDF is.
Get the fuck out here with the “don’t negotiate with terrorists” shit. Had Israel not negotiated with terrorists then they wouldn’t have exchanged 1000 Hamas fighters, including the current head of Hamas in Gaza, sitting 4x life-long, for a single IDF soldier.
That shit only works if it’s doctrine and you don’t ever the fuck blink. Which is the right way to go about things, but also not what Israel did, especially Likud governments: Instead they’ve been sappy and emotional about it, milking it for votes.
Also right now the families of hostages are the #1 critics of Netanyahu’s government.
Clearly it was a bad idea to deviate from Hannibal Doctrine in hindsight. I suspect this value was in mind when Hamas kidnapped all those civilians.
They’re going into Gaza now, lots of footage of IDF and Hamas soldiers fighting in in north Gaza has been released, just saw some on the news.
Which is weeks after they started bombing Gaza “back to the stone age”
That quote was regarding Lebanon, not Gaza.