• CeeBee@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    133
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    This case shows they’re doing precisely the opposite,” said Roth, who said the abuses Caswell endured were tantamount to “torture”.

    No, it was full-blown torture. There’s no room for interpretation here.

    Women across the country have increasingly been jailed for pregnancy outcomes, including miscarriages and stillbirths.

    Geez. I don’t even know what to say. Miscarriages are way more common than people realize. In fact, it’s possible that miscarriages out number full-term pregnancies. There are so many NORMAL biological factors that could trigger a miscarriage.

    It’s an incredibly complex and nuanced field of biology, and this simplistic mindset of “miscarriage means bad woman” is both disturbing and alarming.

    • Tavarin@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’ve read estimates that miscarriages make up as much as 75% of all pregnancies, but many are early so women just think their period was late.

      • CeeBee@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Ya, I was going to mention that also, but I didn’t want to write too much in my comment.

        Edit: I mean about the late period thing. It’s incredibly common.

        • bufordt@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Earth and human.

          The high rate comes from estimating the number of miscarriages that happen in the first 6 weeks, often before someone knows they are pregnant and the miscarriage is dismissed as a heavy or late period.

          The traditional miscarriage stat comes from only looking at known pregnancies, and even it is likely higher than most people realize.

          Regardless which stat you use, miscarriages are way more common than most people think.

          • GreenM@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I see so mothers of age 20-30yrs in Germany have same chance of miscarriage as 50-60 years olds North Korean mothers, that is 75%. Since evidently demographics doesn’t matter.

            Now seriously, why i asked that: No source stated. Every age, country etc has this ratio different. Some countries have problem due to late pregnancies (35+yrs) due their culture. Other have trouble because of malnutrition. Some have better conditions.

            So before i take number as fact and start to spread it as such, i want to know it’s a fact or at least narrow it down to the demographics and possibly the source.

            Otherwise tomorrow there will be new expert say it’s actually 1% or 99% and according to this logic we would have to update our knowledge every-time.

            • bufordt@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              You missed the whole point. We don’t have good statistics from miscarriages, because everyone counts the numbers differently, and when you add in the fact that some people don’t really realize they’ve had a miscarriage, you have a very nebulous stat.

              The point is that certainly miscarriages are more common than most people think, and likely even more common than that.

              My comment was not to prove that their stat was correct, but to explain why the stat varies so much. Your comment about demographics, although I’m sure it was meant innocently, can be taken as looking to blame a certain demographic for doing something wrong that causes their miscarriage numbers to be higher.

              • GreenM@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I have not disproved the part that say unknown percentage of miscarriages takes place. It’s logical.

                However if someone places exact number, it should be based on aomething. If the number has no base, as such it has no value l, at least for me.

                As for second part about hatespeech accusations.
                I don’t see how statistics can blame someone for doing something wrong .
                To me the logic is vise versa. If some demographic group is not doing so well or is doing very well. It will be reflected in statistics if measured. If given source stats can be compared and differences in measurement methods reduced or highlighted.

      • CeeBee@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Sorry to hear that. We were in a similar situation. It’s rough. My wife still breaks down emotionally on the projected delivery date of the first one we lost. All the what could have beens. 😭

        I do think about it every so often, the only reason I don’t get as emotional is because I have terrible memory for remembering specific dates. Took me almost 10 years to get my wife’s birthday right. Still get it wrong sometimes.

        • shastaxc@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          A lot of miscarriages happen because something is wrong with the fetus. The “what might have been” would likely have been a lower quality of life than anyone deserves.

    • trolololol@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’ve never heard of it, but now I’m disturbed and alarmed about the people who hold that opinion.

    • hperrin@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah, but god and Jesus and stuff, let’s punish women because we believe in Bronze Age myths.

      • LostWon@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Actually, even in Bronze Age myths, life begins when the baby takes its first breath. If anyone wants, you can listen to an in-depth (and often very funny) discussion on Data Over Dogma’s “Abortion and the Bible” episode here.

        • hperrin@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sure, but we still need to punish women for having sex. (Genesis 38:24, Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:21, Leviticus 19:20, Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Leviticus 20:18)

        • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          This (and policies of not naming a child until it’s lived a certain length of time) are direct consequences of high rates of prenatal and neonatal mortality. That is, life begins at the first breath because otherwise you have to consider an outright crushing number of dead babies. And when you are arguing divine justice is a thing, that gets real hard real fast.

          • LostWon@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Absolutely. I’m sure high infant mortality rates had a huge influence on the parts of Hammurabi’s Code that got adapted into laws in the Bible. Until it could survive on its own, a fetus was basically the property of the would-be father (though so was the would-be mother, yuck), so they were obviously quite desensitized.