Stop funding it.
It’s this part.
We’re telling them they’ve gone too far, seeing rules… and giving them weapons. Are we giving them seasons so they listen?
And if they don’t listen, doesn’t this make us complicit and with exceedingly poor intensional optics?
They know that the worst that will happen is a stern warning. “Don’t do that again, but it was justified. But don’t do it… OK, just a little bit, but still.”
The wink and the nod really spoil the effect of the stern look and strong finger wagging…
What stern looks? I’m not seeing them.
“We’re telling you not to do this thing, and we assure you all we’ll ever do about you still doing it is to tell you again not to do it whilst carrying on helping you to do it”
Are we giving them seasons so they listen?
What?
I think they meant to say sanctions, not seasons.
For the record, I think “seasons” should have been “weapons”.
Ok, do you know what “seeing rules” means?
My guess is “setting rules”
That makes sense.
How much Israeli money do you reckon went into the pockets of members of the fascist “freedom” caucus?
Congress would need to initiate it unfortunately
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Biden: “For fuck’s sake, Israel, don’t do something this monumentally stupid.”
No points for guessing what comes next.
Is it ethnic cleansing?
Oh boy!
“Here I go killin’ again!”
That’s been happening for decades and just last week they starting displacing 1MM more. So I don’t think “next” is the right word.
Ethnic cleansing comes next. It also came previous, but it will come next, too.
I have 500 on anyone who evacuated the Northern area is denied re-entry and the maps change to gaslight the world into thinking Gaza was always that small.
I don’t see why they’d need to occupy anything. Occupation would imply that you wanted to control that area and those people. I think Israel knows occupation would never work and wouldn’t try it. They’ve preferred to wall-off people in enclaves, slowly squeeze all life out of those regions, and when the people they have cornered inevitably violently lash out against their own slow-motion genocide, it’s time to flatten the area with bombs again. Israel calls it “mowing the grass” and I don’t think a massive occupation fits with that strategy. I think they want to break the region, scatter the people, and leave it to rot, not occupy and be forced to manage it into the future indefinitely.
Turning it into the world’s largest open air prison is occupation.
Biden needs to be primaried.
The democratic party keeps making the mistake of picking a winner early.
It’s too late. None of the state parties have any of the setup done for a primary. Once an incumbent president (of either party) declares they’re running again their party automatically backs them. I just feel lucky we have incumbent primaries for Congress.
I mean, I’m voting for West. Democrats only hold power if we say they do. Just don’t vote for Democrats ever again. The only control we have is over ourselves let’s exercise it
If there’s a chance then sure. But I’m not exactly going to stick a fork in my eye just to spite the Democrats.
Voting for Democrats will only exacerbate our problems. Democrats have never made societies problems meaningfully better, at least in the modern era. Its not spiting them, it’s not signing off on the thing we all know will definitely happen. Voting for Biden will make things worse. Voting for West might possibly make things better. The choice is obvious.
If West has a chance sure. If not then we’re just denying votes to the contest between Status Quo man and Fascist man.
Or what?
Edit: FYI I’m not supporting Israel doing this
Or they’ll give them even more money and say some angry things about it.
The USA could end homelessness or hunger (and maybe both) nationally for the amount of money we sent to Israel each year.
“Or else we will be very, very angry with you. And we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.”
Or the region could destabilize and the US has diplomatic cover to limit their hypothetical response to a more defensive set of operations.
Massacring civilians is fine, but occupying is a bridge too far, I guess.
I definitely get your point here, but a ground invasion would be irreversible. They would never leave Gaza
Haven’t they done it twice before? Something like 2006 and 2014?
They didn’t demand evacuation back then. They invaded, killed a bunch of people, declared victory, then left (obvious oversimplification). This time, they ordering the civilian population to leave seems to be an indication they expect to invade, murder stragglers, then annex the land once it’s empty and leveled. It does seem to go along with the rhetoric of “exerting a price they’ve never dreamed of”.
It’s very much a price the Palestinians dream of though. Israeli settler groups did exactly that in 1947.
Death is kinda irreversible too
Agreed. Just needed to point this out
Israel won’t even need to occupy Gaza after they carpet bomb whats left of it into rubble. 😒
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Biden “And definitely don’t occupy 5 different countrys at the same time. Some of them for over 20 years. Come on man!”
Listen here, jack!
Yeah, what will he or the Democrats do when Israel does occupy Gaza?
Continue to provide unequivocal support and money to Israel?
It’s not like they’ll do anything else like officially recognize Israel has been acting as a apartheid state causing mass human suffering which in turn grew more mass suffering and conflict.
Don’t you dare cross this line!
Ok don’t cross this line!!
Ok don’t cross THIS line!
Ok I’m going inside, if you knock, I’m not coming out.
Obama picked Biden for VP because he was a darling of the Israel lobby, who didn’t particularly like Obama. Anyone who’s satisfied by this sort of lip service from Biden were just looking for any reason to absolve the administration to serve a partisan political alignment.
I think it would be the ultimate show of force if the U.S. gives aid to Israel, tells Israel to not go any further, and when they do, the U.S. obliterates their military. “We helped you and you still lost.” I just wish the innocent wouldn’t get killed. The innocent and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer. Fuck war.
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I too love completely irrelevant whataboutisms.
You think Trump is bad?! Do you think a kindergartener, a sentient corn cob, and a clowder of housecats would do any better?
Only one of those has a chance of ending up in the white house.
It’s the corn, isn’t it?
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I’m a simple man. I think murder is always bad.
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It appears that Israel possibly was aware the attack was going to happen and they allowed it. Regardless, Israel supports Hamas. They need Hamas so they can justify their murder and colonialism. I agree Hamas is bad, but the Zionists have done much more harm. Bibi should not be in office.
I would need much, much more solid proof for this conspiracy theory before believing it.
I don’t doubt Israel had some unspecified warnings, but I just think it’s much more likely that it was a mixture of a misguided belief that Hamas was more interested in political power than large scale terrorism, an assumption that any attack would just be “regular” rocket attacks like we’ve seen in the last years, incompetence of Israeli intelligence services, and an over confidence that the fence and Iron Dome would be enough to stop any attack.
Also, Israel doesn’t need Hamas. Just look at the West Bank where Hamas isn’t in power.
Agree though that Bibi shouldn’t be in power.
It’s a difficult thing to prove without a whistle blower fairly high up in Israeli intelligence. What does look very suspicious is one of the most advanced intelligence agencies in the world “missed it”, and it took one of the most well funded and constantly present in the area militaries 8 hours to respond.
Israel has had a major PR problem as more and more people view Palestinians as people who also deserve to be alive. Letting a terrorist group in that region attack undefended is a way for Israel to play the victim as they respond by taking more land homes and lives.
Genuine question… how is killing 1800 people protecting oneself against an attack that killed 1200 people? I would agree that Israel has a right to protect itself from terrorist attacks but I fail to see how killing more people protects anyone. If anything, it’s just instigating the terrorists to continue to try and kill more people.
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Who is applauding Hamas?
This should be the least controversial take of all time.
You think Hamas won’t be in power unless majority of people supports it? They celebrated when Hamas murder those citizens.
You think Hamas won’t be in power unless majority of people supports it?
Trump took power in the US even though the majority didn’t support him.
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Hamas is palestines means of fighting back at their oppressors. You can’t say they are separate entities, because without Hamas, Palestinians would all be dead by now. Its like saying “I support having meat, but not the killing of animals”. And why are you pro Israel? They want to do genocide. If the Israeli people are innocent of their countries crimes, they will overthrow the government.
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We’re back to the “beheading” propaganda again? What is your source for that?
Bro, listen to anything else besides Israeli propaganda. Most of what they say about Hamas is a flat out lie.
A bunch of 20 year olds raving in the desert are not “the oppressors.”
You are just stating your opinion.
The real fascists are netanyahu and his ilk.
Without Hamas, Palestinians would have their own country lol
Hamas is literally the only reason they do not. Hamas only exists because Israel was finally close to talking Abbas into a two state solution, which he had previously always denied.
How do you not know this, at this point?
“Yeah sure, I will stop killing you and give you your own country, all you have to do is lay down all your weapons…”
Bro it’s been happening over and over for the last 30 years, with Islamists fighting the peace process: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process
Fact is, Israel is the only country actually trying to create the first ever Palestinian state, and that includes “Palestine”
You can debate opinions all you want but history is history.
Imagine unironically believing that. LMAO.
That’s literally the history.
You’re delusional.
Imagine being this fucking stupid that you think Israeli propaganda is true.
Ah yes the most famous Israeli propaganda of all, well-documented historical facts
If the Israeli people are innocent of their countries crimes, they will overthrow the government.
It never, ever works that way. Seriously, name one time when a government was overthrown by its own citizens for committing atrocities against foreigners.
I didn’t say it was common, or easy. But that is the bar. Looking the other way on genocide is equivalent to doing it yourself.
I don’t believe in setting bars people are demonstrably unable to reach. You’re basically asking people to start a civil war to protect strangers they’ll never meet, knowing the outcome of such a war is far from certain. Even if you win, the damage to your country could be catastrophic, and the odds of ending up with new leaders who are at least as bad as the old ones are pretty high.
Yes, you should start a civil war to prevent your country doing genocide. Because the alternative is genocide. What exactly is complicated about this?
You’re not listening to what I’m saying.
Also, why are you on the internet and not out overthrowing a genocidal government right now? Shame on you!
I am listening to what you’re saying, you’re making excuses for Americans who don’t care enough to stop a genocide happening on their dime.
What do you think the most effective way is for an American to try to prevent this genocide? Your whataboutism isn’t wholly wrong, but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do beyond writing to my senators demanding that they kill the funding. So, what is your answer?
After decades of turning blind eye towards Israel’s crimes, suddenly Murica thinks it’s going too far.
It’s ok I told the angry pitbull to not attack the baby I slathered in steak sauce. Anyway, off to golf.
“I think it’d be a big mistake,” Mr. Biden told “60 Minutes” on CBS in a conversation taped on Thursday and aired on Sunday night. “Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don’t represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again.” But “taking out the extremists” there, he added, “is a necessary requirement.”
I’m not sure how anyone is taking this as a controversial take. Logistically, practically, and the urgent bloodthirst for revenge make this fucking hard to do. But this seems to me to be a pretty even keeled non polarizing take on a complex situation where there is justification for military action against a terrorist group, and that military action must be measured against the safety and needs of a civilian population.
It’s not an even take, because he has not proposed taking out the extremists in Israel.
Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.
Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, where the hell are you getting your information?
Israel still controls all traffic, imports, utilities, and ingress/egress from the area (if it didn’t, they wouldn’t have been able to cut off power, water, and aid). Israel “withdrawing from Gaza” doesn’t really mean much unless Gaza has elected representation and can sustain itself.
I don’t necessarily know if people think it’s controversial. I think people might be annoyed that they are empty words based on what was said to Russia prior to their Ukraine invasion: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-joe-biden-emmanuel-macron-europe-moscow-1f353699f0be1609da5435c98cfc8022
Not comparable. Israel is an ally, and needs our funding. Russia has been an advocacy or “enemy of my enemy” type more or less for a hundred years
The US is sending mix signals. Biden condemns Hamas, calls them terrorists, and funds the iron dome. Of course Israel thinks they have carte blanche in the region. Surrounded by hostile nations, what other nations in the world acts as aggressive as Israel. They do it because they know they have the full backing of the US. The question is will we live in a world without any Palestinians in the middle east soon - coz that’s where we’re headed.
Israel misspelled their defense system. Should be called the irony dome.
I agree with you. But I’d like to add this. I live in Israel at the moment, I’m not Israeli but I moved here for my job. I live in a pretty safe area, but we still had rockets coming from Gaza and from up north Hezbolla. They were explicitly targeting civilian areas. But iron Dome and the other system, David something intercepted it. Perspective on life changes when you see a flying missile heading your way only to get intercepted by these systems. The area where I live is full of Arabs, Jews, immigrant from Eastern Europe etc. and had several pro-palastine rallies in the past couple of days, and I stand with them. Also, There have been at least 5 to 6 Hamas strikes every hour since last week, they are targeting everywhere around Israel and iron Dome is on full protection.
I just wanted to add, I don’t know what for…
I imagine your perspective also changes if the missiles were landing and killing people, innocent civilians all around you, your house, hospitals, etc. That’s what it’s like for the people in Gaza. It also looks pretty suspicious when there’s lots of immigrants in Israel and mostly Palestinians in a separate cordoned off area (kinda like an apartheid state).
There are quite a lot of palastinians here mate. You should really visit Palestine when you get a chance… the amount of people chanting death to the Jews is kind of absurd.
Please try and check out some telegram groups or sites like Funker etc for leaked footage. Hamas holds them hostage during the knock-off alert. IDF doesn’t target civilians explicitly. The nuances of this war are a bit deeper than what we can convey in text here.
Also see that Israel has asylum for gay/trans people fleeing Palestine or middle east. My point being, Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war, but some horror stories about Hamas (and other terrorist organisations) are really depraved.
I support peace. That is all. No more bloodshed.
Edit: I forgot to add this… when I said perspective, I’m talking about perspective on life. Not in this war or religion or anything else. Just living and life in general
Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war
How can you possibly say this when the number of people Israel has killed dwarfs the number of people killed by any Palestinian terrorist group, Hamas or otherwise?
I support peace too but one side of this equation is tipped so far that it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously that claims Israel’s goals are anywhere near the vicinity of “peaceful” or “humane”.
That being said… stay safe. I can’t imagine the situation you’re in.
I mean, ya, there’s a lot of Palestinians there. That’s because Israel took their land. There’s also a lot of black people in South Africa, even during apartheid, too. But tons of them were still pushed off their homes into tiny strips of land in Gaza and the West Bank, so now the majority are in those other places. The same thing happened to the natives in the US.
IDF don’t target civilians explicitly but they also don’t seem to care about them. They’ve killed thousands more civilians than Hamas has with the barest of excuses, all to find Hamas not really caring about collateral. That’s what happens when you drop bombs all over the place. And the fear and terror and horrible quality of life causes things like Hamas. Hamas sucks, I’m sure they would kill more if they could, but Israel has the power in this relationship. When non-violent protests lead to killed or getting your knees blown off, or to nothing at all (like most protests for Palestinians have been for the last near century), when there’s no hope or chance of growth, the average is 18 and you’re probably never going to grow old or successful, then people turn to monsters like Hamas.
Thank you for adding it. It boils down to regular people being hurt, and as an outsider I feel helpless because there doesn’t seem to be a good solution, just less bad ones.
Like there’s constantly a few kids ruining everything for the rest of us.
Now that it’s been a week since Hamas attacked, there’s all these stories coming out about how the IDF didn’t even respond to the attack for an hour, and how many friendly fire incidents keep happening, and how incompetent the ground troops are in general. The certainty in their military might is completely gone and now there’s no telling what could happen. Western allies have basically given them carte blanch approval for genocide and now some of them aren’t so certain.
But he said he was convinced that “the Israelis are going to do everything in their power to avoid the killing of innocent civilians.”
It certainly does more than Hama’s ever did. I like how people conveniently forget that not only operating a military HQ bunker under a hospital is a warcrime in and of itself, it also makes it a legitimate war target.
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OK buddy, where are you located. We just want to occu…ask you some questions.
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