Auto execs in the US, Europe, and Japan never thought Chinese EVs were a threat. Now they’re coming to wipe the floor with their Western counterparts.
“You won’t believe what’s coming,” warned the title of a January 2023 video from the Inside China Auto YouTube channel. “Europe’s premium car makers aren’t ready for this,” warned another video from the same channel, uploaded in July.
Produced by Shanghai-based automotive journalist Mark Rainford, a former communications executive for Mercedes-Benz, the channel is one of several by China-based Western commentators agog at what they are seeing—and driving.
American, Japanese, and European car manufacturers had decades head start in this area and they blew it chasing higher profit margins on large trucks and SUVs with lax EPA gas mileage restrictions at a time when climate change has become a major crisis.
Invested in lobbying instead of products
Who Killed the Electric Car is an excellent look at early EV business in North America
Petrol cars go brrrrrr
I still get angry thinking of what happened
And BS green washing with dead end hydrogen demo cars.
Yeah they’re so weirdly fucking attached to hydrogen cars even though there has never been anything even remotely approaching a solution to their problems.
The execs could make extra money double dipping from oil companies, they are taking marketing funds from oil companies pushing hydrogen too.
Utility companies are often public and even otherwise evs don’t really have the same margins for electricity.
I’m curious if the “climate change is a hoax” stuff is as prominent in China as the US. I’ve run into so many people who hate EVs solely because they think climate change is a hoax and EVs are just another way to scam them out of money for a lower quality vehicle… despite any evidence of EVs being better quality
Those weren’t the case in Europe, though. What happened there?
American gasoline cars suck and are more embarrassing than other country’s gasoline cars, but Chinese EVs are not at all a viable competitor in the market yet and so far have consistently failed to even gain a foothold for 15 years straight.
If you have any counterargument to that, I’d like to see it.
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Fair point, i was very vague in my initial comments. I was talking more from a reputational, manufacturing and corporate perspective more than the cars existing in the market at all, which I totally concede is the common usage. I talked about this in other comments, but the scorn of my initial comment is aimed at the absurd, valueless, propagandizing article itself, rather than the ev market in China the article is irresponsibly promoting the hopes and dreams of.
Chinese EVs haven’t really tried to gain a significant foothold because domestic demand still outpaces supply. The international markets are getting pennies in investment from the industry because the domestic EV market is the single fastest growing car market in the world.
Good point. My problem is more with the manufacturing and corporate problems Chinese EVs have that result in, at best, a similar product, but more often than not, a more dangerous, less reliable and less worker and environmentally responsible product as a result of corporate corruption or entirely fabricated corporations to boost industry reputation.
This view was not very clear in my initial comment as my intent was to express incredulity at the claims of the article.
This comment reads like you haven’t had too much exposure to non-Western perspectives on China’s EV industry. The absolutely cutthroat competition in the sector has put a lot of weaker companies out of business. You’re judging an entire industry based on the worst companies in that industry rather than the average or the best companies (which also tend to have more sales).
Imagine if you judged the American EV industry based on Nikola or if you only reported on American EVs built explicitly to murder pedestrians (like the Cybertruck). That’s what the current media coverage on China’s EV industry looks like because a success story is boring and doesn’t drive click-through rate.
No you’re making further strawman arguments based on your initial assumptive misinterpretations of my original comment about the article.
You’ve made a mountain out of your cultivated molehill.
Have you asked me that I thought of the industry? No you made incorrect assumptions and threw a tantrum.
Have you asked what I thought about the future of the industry? No, you made incorrect assumptions and threw a tantrum.
Have you asked about my familiarity with the industry? No, you climbed another rung on the ladder of your misperceptions and threw another tantrum.
You’re arguing against things that you are making up unrelated to my original point.
Keep chasing your own tail, but don’t pretend that you’re making any sort of a point.
Governments worldwide should support their auto industries because it’s fundamental to any country’s GDP and future wealth base
I believe this to be the completely wrong approach. Europe shouldn’t feel threatened. They should make cars much less important. Europe should be investing in green tech and public transport (buses, metros, trams, trains) so much that the average person doesn’t even want a car. That a car is only required for very specific tasks that otherwise cannot be done without other modes of transport.
China could make the best car ever and it wouldn’t matter if it cars had a tiny market. But when you read the advice given by car-addicted, car-centric people, then can’t think of making cars less important. It goes completely against their beliefs, no matter how much it harms the environment, citizens, and governments. They just want that shiny new car-sized iPhone.
But what are those “very specifc tasks”? And public transportation makes complete sense but how feasable is it to implement in low density areas?
Low density areas are mostly subsidized by high density areas. Good public transport everywhere will probably mean people will be more willing to return to lower density areas.
And specific tasks are things like transporting heavy, cumbersome articles like a fridge, couch, cupboards, and so on. Not something that happens every day. There might be others, but they are most likely limited to a small section of the population or very occasional.
I’m failling to follow the connection.
High density areas are usually connected with proximity to large sea or river ports, where movement of goods is facilitated, thus creating jobs, which attracte people. Low density areas simple lack such infrastructure.
One municipality will not transfer funds to another and central government will not do so as well, as fund transfers are usually tied to population numbers.
Again, I want public transportation but at best, if I’m following the reasoning correctly, such a model would be feasible at suburbia not smaller towns. A good rail conection would do wonders to facilitate movement of commercial cargo to and from these sites and long distance travelling but would not afect the day to day needs of the locals, as such low density areas are hard to implement local public transport.
I agree on those tasks but people shop routinely, if for nothing else, for groceries, and the current model of business preys on collapsing small local shops in favor of large retail venues. A weekly grocery run for a family of four is cumbersome. We can shift to an eshopping & delivery model but are we willing to let others choose for us our food?
Eliminating the of personal transportation predicates on turning back a good number of business models and urban planning models very dificult to revert.
I’m not sure where you’re from, but your assumptions might be right for your area or country, but that doesn’t count for all of Europe.
Switzerland has great public transport throughout the country. I can attest to that myself, but if you want to, watch NotJustBikes talk about it. Probably you can find better sources if you want to. Also, Luxembourg has free public transport in the entire country. Yes, it’s small already, but even villages with 50 people have a bus riding through it about once an hour. Parts of France are actually trying to copy that model:
- https://www.thelocal.fr/20210611/where-in-france-can-you-travel-on-public-transport-for-free
- https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210519-how-france-is-testing-free-public-transport
A weekly grocery run for a family of four is cumbersome. We can shift to an eshopping & delivery model but are we willing to let others choose for us our food?
- You can get a electrical cargo-bike.
- What do you mean others choose your food? You choose the food and they bring it to you. Same as when you order shoes, a phone, or any other goods.
Eliminating the of personal transportation predicates on turning back a good number of business models and urban planning models very dificult to revert.
It’s more the mindset that’s difficult to revert. Town centers become livelier with better public transport as people don’t have to cede way to cars. Businesses and citizens get more space to spread out too. Better public transport also helps teens and young adults become independent more quickly as they do not have to rely on their parents to provide a car for them. It also decreases the costs for citizens and communes alike. (read the articles about French communes introducing free transport)
Cars are really expensive another youtube video explains. It’s specific to Germany and the dude cites this document from a German association (run it through google translate).
So yes, investing in public transport in low density areas is beneficial for citizens, the state, and can even be funded by communes themselves (again see France), but it’s better when the federal government does so (if the country is a federation).
I’m in Portugal.
I moved from a big city tp a small inland city and public transportation is simply not very feaseable here. And it exists, nonetheless!
The local bus passes once every hour or 45 minutes. This is not a good way to move, as a simple shopping trip can take easily two hours. The quick and easier fix for this would be putting more vehicles in circulation - and people want it - but no more vehicles are added.
The bus here and on many more places in my country is faced with very wide routes, that require a good amount of time to run. We’re too scattered. Not doubting it works for others - I want here too! - but not easily doable here.
For shopping, particularly food, no offense but I like to personally pick what I buy. As someone who worked on a perishables provider, I still remember to this day the stuff that was shipped to customers and how stock was normally (mis)handled. Even clothing is a risk. Other items, sure; but food?
As someone who enjoys walking in general, I’d welcome more pedestrian friendlier cities but that also requires small shops to return and those are being hard pressed to cease to exist.
I’ve visited Portugal only once, so my experience is very limited with the country, but public transport wasn’t very good even in Lisbon in my experience. Don’t know if there are portugese cities with better public transport, but if that’s the best Portugal has, then your opinion is certainly understandable.
Not only that, Portugal sits close to the middle of the pack in population density, not far from France and their public transport is certainly only good in and around cities.
It still is undeniable that cars are quite costly. It would save Portugal money to actually invest in better public transport, maybe even make it free. Free or affordable public transport increases the frequency of buses as the ridership increases.
The biggest difficulty is changing the public perception of cars as a status symbol and the feeling of “freedom”. The freedom one gets from free public transport is difficult to comprehend, I think. One can just hop on the bus, step out at a random place, rent a bike, explore, and hop onto the next bus with barely any planning except for getting back.
In France, the number of visits people made to shops outside of the center actually increased.Anyway, I wish you good luck in Portugal.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
If they aren’t cheap, celophane-wrapped, Amazon-style, random-string-of-letters brand, low quality bullshit… Then I will definitely be very interested.
Fuck our oil-worshipping car industry. It deserves to go extinct for intentionally slow-rolling EV releases to prop up the oil industry. Fuck 'em.
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Hhhmmm… Is 5 Stars on Ncap enough?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/7ThTci70350?si=8JYMX-KkR20M-3fK
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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They are, but you would be surprised about how many people don’t care about safety and just go for the cheaper choice. 💵
Ppfffff hahaha that is ridiculous.
Yes they made videos.
No they have not successfully made an even decent electric car with any range yet in China.
Geez way to spread unsubstantiated propaganda about a product from China with an abysmal track record so far.
I mean… I own a BYD in Australia. It’s got 400 km range and it’s the cheap, low range model. With a 5 star safety rating.
What was that you were saying about unsubstantiated propaganda?
That I would like sources rather than unsubstantiated propaganda.
Anecdotes are fun, though.
Which byd do you have?
An Atto 3. Is that relevant?
You’re making a blanket statement that none of something exists, so a single example existing is actually a sufficient counterpoint. We’re not arguing numbers, we don’t need to establish statistical significance.
Woo, bit defensive. Yea, who needs numbers anyway?
I think if you’re sharing an anecdote about the car you own that you have not mentioned you are satisfied with but are presumably attempting to make some undefined point by mentioning, yes, the model is relevant.
My initial comment(about the article) does not express that evs do not exist in China, it expresses that the article is incredibly and embarassingly overreaching in its effusive praise for completely unsubstantiated in-house marketing for theorized future products from one of the least reliable industries in China.
Dude, you raslly look pathetic on this argument, just give up.
Very convincing.
Think I’ll just continue to be correct and you can dance along to the merry tune of everyone else who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
It looks like you think the Chinese cars are all like that car meme “Alibaba $2000 Chang li”
The byd Atto 3 is comparable in build quality and in range to a Volkswagen id4 while costing 10k less
Nope, i was talking about actual EVs, not the little farm trucks.
That’s good to hear about the atto 3, first Chinese ev I’ve heard any firsthand consumer praise for. Do you have one yourself?
Thanks.
I tried the Atto 3 and it’s really nice, luxurious. But there’s no way that I’m paying 40k for something that launched in my country one month ago
Yea, the newcomer status of these vehicles is a red flag for sure.
It’ll be interesting to see these reviews with a few years of hindsight.
What do you mean by luxurious with regard to the Atto3? I have not driven one yet, although I am heading to China again in January.
the driving seat was like a leather couch, with comfy armrests
probably the european dealer chose the highest trim possible in order to justify the 40k price tag. I don’t know others, but for me paying 40k to be a beta tester… uhm…
Yea, that’s tricky, especially from such a volatile industry in the first place with no historical certainty about the manufacturing or safety data that was provided before the EU did their own safety tests on the newer exported models.
With that said, I have a leather-upholstered compact SUV right now and I do love that, so will definitely try the atto3 if it’s near where I’m staying when I visit, although a domestic product in China is often nothing like the exported product.
I’d love it if the atto 3 was the first legitimate an independently ratified step into the internal ev industry, but I’ll take all of these new reviews with a grain of salt until they’re a few years in without major incident.
Source?
Just hoping for info about China’s Ev. Never mind. I’ll look it up.
Oh you answered yourself in this comment chain earlier, not me, so I didn’t see you were looking for information or I would’ve sent you some.
It’s a cool itndustry to look into, enjoy.
Dude has none, he’s just extremely opposed to China’s existence.
For what, specifically?
Found this.
