I hope this post is not all over the place and hope we can all have a constructive dialogue.
Ukraine: A country chose to go west and sign a trade agreement with the EU instead of with Russia. Putin skillfully manipulated the feelings of the then pro Russian population in Ukraine living mostly in the East and South to make them feel persecuted and then outright invaded the country. Putin believed he would conquer the country in 3 days and that Ukrainians would welcome his troops, failed, he then declared all Ukrainians who don’t want to be annexed by Russia are nazis, proceeded to treat the whole Ukrainian population as an enemy and here we are. This is how bullies act and Putin needs to be stopped.
Israel: A democracy that is also an occupying power since the first Arab Israeli war. Receiving billions in military aid from the US, the population there has grown to feel safe behind an iron and technological wall while ignoring they are still occupying more than 5 millions of Palestinians and the territory where they live, slowly annexing it with settlers, making impossible they have a normal life we in the west (and people in Israel) take for granted. Low level violence against Palestinians by settlers has been normalized, nobody cares about the open air prison that is Gaza. After the Hamas incursion in Israel with episodes of baffling violence and 1000 dead Israelis, Israeli authorities are using genocidal language calling Palestinians animals, have blockaded the territory, not letting in even humanitarian aid and even Biden, a president who claims to be a liberal and whom I always considered a supporter of a rules based international order and human rights basically gave Israel a free hand to do whatever they want in Gaza, ignoring the thousands of civilians that’ll get killed by the unmatchable power of the Israeli army when Israel sends in the troops. Israel has been treating all Palestinians in Gaza as enemies for decades and nobody cared, but the moment it became clear Russia was about to invade Ukraine, we in Europe and America rallied to send them Javelins and NLAWs.
We in Europe and America love to say we stand up against bullies, but apparently only against those bullies we don’t like: This double standard baffles and saddens me: most Ukrainian supporters in the West I’ve heard have simply sided blindly with Israel, repeating its right to self defense, while ignoring that Israeli attacks have killed UN staff helping the Palestinian population, ignoring that not every Palestinian is a terrorist, ignoring that Israel is occupying foreign territory, exactly the same Russia does in Ukraine, ignoring that if Israel invades Gaza, much more civilians will die than militias. The Ukrainian government, a country partially occupied by another country also told an occupying country it respects its right to self defense while saying nothing about the occupied territories or the occupied population.
This is ironic, but above all I’m speechless and saddened.
Suddenly, I’m not sure I should keep supporting sending weaponry to Ukraine: It’s not justice, rule of law and open societies what we want, it’s simply geopolitics, rules for thee and not for me. Russia does it in Ukraine, but Ukraine, America and Israel do it as well.
If our foreign policy is pure geopolitics, I’m a gullible idiot for being an idealist who believes in rule of law, equal application of the law, human rights, multi party democracy and freedom of press and speech and I’m even more of an idiot for believing everything Biden or any liberal politician says.
And I don’t know how to react to this. What do I do now? Where do I go now? I always considered me a liberal, now I feel politically orphaned.
To be clear: I believe we have to keep sending arms to Ukraine till every Russian troop leaves Ukraine, because Putin is a bully and Israel needs to end the occupation and annexation of Palestinian territory, reach an agreement with the Palestinians and give them their own country so they can prosper like anyone else, so atrocities like this one don’t repeat again. If Palestinians don’t get their own country, things like this will happen again. Israel is acting like a bully. We should stand up to any bully.
Man, I’m pro-Palestine sovereignity AND anti-Israel, but the whole thing unfortunately goes much deeper than the strong bullying the weak. The whole situation is steeped in very recent history and mutual atrocities.
idk why you start questioning your support of Ukraine because of that. seems suspicious and constructed.
Also, the Palestinians don’t want what you suggest either. For revenge, they want to kill as many Israelis as possible and then take their land. If they had wanted peace, being the weaker group, they could have requested neutral foreign troops to help guard their territories as a peace keeping mission at any time. Israeli people and government would then not be able to attack without attacking the foreign peace keepers and getting in trouble with one or more stronger nations. However, Palestinians did not choose that option, because they would have to stop attacking Israel to get this help and they just need revenge, even if it means their annihilation. They are too far gone down the rage road.
being the weaker group, they could have requested neutral foreign troops to help guard their territories as a peace keeping mission at any time.
Did you forget Palestine is not recognised as a member state in the UN?
Also, confusing Palestinians with the terror group Hamas is disingenuous.
You do not need to be recognized in the UN to ask for international help. You don’t even have to ask the UN, even though it would be a good start. You can just ask any friendly, strong nation.
You are simplifying this extremely.
I wonder if there is a state willing to do this on their on accord without backing from the UN. Then, would Israel consider this as a breach of sovereignty? What is the risk for the peace keeping state if Israel considers this a breach of sovereignty, do you have the US + west against you?
idk why you start questioning your support of Ukraine because of that.
because it’s not based on a genuine sense of justice, something that should be universal, but political calculation: good invaded country, bad invaded people. Nobody in the west did anything for the Armenians in Nagorno karabakh. We don’t hear about Kashmir anymore. (just examples of our lack of coherence).
Also, the Palestinians don’t want what you suggest either.
they want to kill as many Israelis as possible and then take their land.
Jews are usurers, spread disease and are something strange, like an insect. They also killed Christ. Sounds familiar? If you think like that you are not better than a racist.
I’ll just point out Israel has been occupying Palestinian territory since 1967 and building settlements that make creating a state there impossible. Israel created conditions that make extremism an acceptable way to live (and die) for a growing number of desperate Palestinians. Israel may choose to keep ignoring this at their own peril. As said, a partition that lets Palestinians live a normal life like we do in the West should be the aim, unless you want perpetual war or your aim is to genocide 2.2 million of Palestinians in Gaza.
The solution your proposed is so childish, delusional and disingenuous Im not even going to comment on it.
I just hope you stop thinking every Palestinian is out to kill Israelis. If you don’t, you are no better than a racist.
I think you’re seeing this as a binary situation when it’s not.
It’s not a choice of supporting Israelis or Palestinians, the extremists on both sides are the problem. It takes two to compromise and make peace. Hamas was the elected government of Gaza and their founding charter is to destroy Israel. Not much room for peace, especially when kids are being killed. By anyone.
I’m hoping that Israel can be convinced to wait until a humanitarian corridor has been established. For NGO’s to be well funded and in place in the Sinai Peninsula, which has been lived in since pre-historic times so it’s not like it’s uninhabitable, before starting any ground attack.
The Ukraine situation is nothing like this, Putin invaded and he could end the war with one word. The Ukrainians can only end it by fighting. We have the weapons they need. To not give them would be to condemn them to death.
Hamas never was elected. They keep postponing any election for decades.
