Urim has been Israeli since the country came into existence, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Unless your position is that all of Israel is occupied territory, in which case I invite you to take a look at what Palestinians did the moment they gained power over Jewish civilians and imagine that scene repeated across Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
Urim has been Israeli since the country came into existence.
There’s so much propaganda from both sides that I don’t know what to believe about who, but Israel has only been a country since 1948 - that’s after the invention of the Jeep, microwave ovens, Frisbees, jet aircraft, etc.
I’m not aware of the agreement made with Palestine for the land, but I’ve seen enough videos of Israelis near the border, both citizens and uniformed men, throwing Palestinians out of their houses so Israelis could live there. Not to mention the violent acts.
It was ruled by those. The lands were still owned by Palestinians. The farm lands my mother’s family owned were given to them by the Ottomans very long ago to cultivate. Trey had since settled there and started a small town. In 1947/48 they were driven out at gunpoint. They had rifles and fought with them but not much beyond that. The entire family fled to Jordan, Syria, Kuwait, and some other places. I did a 23andMe test long ago, my mother’s side is almost entirely Levantian, they are from that area and have been in that area since ages, never took anyone’s lands, never hurt anyone. That’s your average Palestinian family basically.
Yeah, and the Jews were driven out by the people who stole the land from them, which eventually ended up in the hands of the Ottomans, who then gave it to your mother’s family. Go back far enough and everyone has stolen land from someone else. What Israel is doing is fucked up, but they have a historical claim to the land as well.
Arguing that it’s your land now because you’ve had it for a long time is like Americans trying to claim that they don’t benefit from colonization and have an unquestionable claim to the US because none of them were around when the native populations were slaughtered and forced into reservations. It’s not right to expect you to get up and leave at this point, but ignoring the fact that the land you’re sitting on was stolen is also wrong. It wasn’t really the Ottoman’s land to give.
It’s recent enough that the Palestinians still see the Israelis as recent occupiers, but far enough in the past that the Israelis have had several generations grow up there and see it as their home.
So the Israelis don’t see themselves as occupiers while the Palestinians do.
A 1-state solution is impractical at this point, but a 2-state solution leaves them as bitter enemies with a shared border neither side agrees on.
It’s a hopelessly fucked situation created by people who have been dead for decades, and I don’t think anyone knows a clean way out of it.
The only solutions are for them to share the space, which is pretty much impossible given the hatred, for them to divide the space, which will keep them at way with each other, or to let one side or the other have it all and end up with millions displaced or killed.
But regardless of who is right and wrong and who should be allowed to live there and who shouldn’t, I think we can all agree that murdering innocent civilians is wrong whether Israel is doing it or Hamas.
When Israel commits atrocities, they should be called out. When Hamas commits atrocities they should as well.
All of this brings to question whether or not the West should support Israel as one side. And that’s a hard question to answer. The West created this situation, and really shouldn’t just wash its hands of all responsibility.
As bad as Israel has been, the West can’t really walk away because they would be genocided. It’s been seen time and again that Iran, Hamas, Israel, Jordan, and others are perfectly happy to wipe them out.
I personally think that instead of supplying Israel with weapons the West should have boots on the ground as peacekeeping forces. They should protect Israel AND Palestine from attacks. By supplying Israel, the West is complicit in their attacks on Palestinians and in the establishment of illegal settlements.
I think they’re saying that because it’s colonized territory and the native population was removed its occupied. So yeah basically arguing against the entire Jewish state. Not my argument just what that is sounding like.
Urim has been Israeli since the country came into existence, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Unless your position is that all of Israel is occupied territory, in which case I invite you to take a look at what Palestinians did the moment they gained power over Jewish civilians and imagine that scene repeated across Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
There’s so much propaganda from both sides that I don’t know what to believe about who, but Israel has only been a country since 1948 - that’s after the invention of the Jeep, microwave ovens, Frisbees, jet aircraft, etc.
I’m not aware of the agreement made with Palestine for the land, but I’ve seen enough videos of Israelis near the border, both citizens and uniformed men, throwing Palestinians out of their houses so Israelis could live there. Not to mention the violent acts.
That’s because it was owned by the British. Before them the Ottomans, Romans, and Israelites.
It was ruled by those. The lands were still owned by Palestinians. The farm lands my mother’s family owned were given to them by the Ottomans very long ago to cultivate. Trey had since settled there and started a small town. In 1947/48 they were driven out at gunpoint. They had rifles and fought with them but not much beyond that. The entire family fled to Jordan, Syria, Kuwait, and some other places. I did a 23andMe test long ago, my mother’s side is almost entirely Levantian, they are from that area and have been in that area since ages, never took anyone’s lands, never hurt anyone. That’s your average Palestinian family basically.
Yeah, and the Jews were driven out by the people who stole the land from them, which eventually ended up in the hands of the Ottomans, who then gave it to your mother’s family. Go back far enough and everyone has stolen land from someone else. What Israel is doing is fucked up, but they have a historical claim to the land as well.
Arguing that it’s your land now because you’ve had it for a long time is like Americans trying to claim that they don’t benefit from colonization and have an unquestionable claim to the US because none of them were around when the native populations were slaughtered and forced into reservations. It’s not right to expect you to get up and leave at this point, but ignoring the fact that the land you’re sitting on was stolen is also wrong. It wasn’t really the Ottoman’s land to give.
Excuse me, but what year was this? At how many thousand years ago do we draw the line for things relevant today?
EDIT: For reference, we are talking about 3,700 years ago.
1948 is a tricky amount of time.
It’s recent enough that the Palestinians still see the Israelis as recent occupiers, but far enough in the past that the Israelis have had several generations grow up there and see it as their home.
So the Israelis don’t see themselves as occupiers while the Palestinians do.
A 1-state solution is impractical at this point, but a 2-state solution leaves them as bitter enemies with a shared border neither side agrees on.
It’s a hopelessly fucked situation created by people who have been dead for decades, and I don’t think anyone knows a clean way out of it.
The only solutions are for them to share the space, which is pretty much impossible given the hatred, for them to divide the space, which will keep them at way with each other, or to let one side or the other have it all and end up with millions displaced or killed.
But regardless of who is right and wrong and who should be allowed to live there and who shouldn’t, I think we can all agree that murdering innocent civilians is wrong whether Israel is doing it or Hamas.
When Israel commits atrocities, they should be called out. When Hamas commits atrocities they should as well.
All of this brings to question whether or not the West should support Israel as one side. And that’s a hard question to answer. The West created this situation, and really shouldn’t just wash its hands of all responsibility.
As bad as Israel has been, the West can’t really walk away because they would be genocided. It’s been seen time and again that Iran, Hamas, Israel, Jordan, and others are perfectly happy to wipe them out.
I personally think that instead of supplying Israel with weapons the West should have boots on the ground as peacekeeping forces. They should protect Israel AND Palestine from attacks. By supplying Israel, the West is complicit in their attacks on Palestinians and in the establishment of illegal settlements.
Damn, that is heavy and it really doesn’t seem like there’s any way for an eventual good peaceful outcome without a lot of bloodshed leading up to it.
Thank you for taking the time to educate me on the subject instead of getting into a keyboard war. You wear the halo this evening.
I think they’re saying that because it’s colonized territory and the native population was removed its occupied. So yeah basically arguing against the entire Jewish state. Not my argument just what that is sounding like.